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I've never voted for the POTUS and I expect I never will. From my POV I don't really care who wins but I think my preference leans to Trump. That has mostly to

I've never voted for the POTUS and I expect I never will. From my POV I don't really care who wins but I think my preference leans to Trump. That has mostly to do with the Democrats being overly populistic about all the concerns, without offering any solutions. If you push through the endless barrage of misinformation from both sides, it does seem that the conservatives have a better understanding on how to progress the USA in a reasonable manner. Unfortunately, in the online, and also in the educated world, this is an incredibly unpopular opinion. I've been labeled a racist, xenophobe, women-hater, and bigot so many times, it's a bit stale by now. I'm pro-choice, I'm pro-guns, I love science, I think the Trump administration royally messed up the COVID-19 response, and I also think anyone in his stead would have done a terrible job (albeit slightly better from an advisory POV). Still, a Democratic POTUS wouldn't get any of the Republican voters to listen to them. So that would've ended in disaster as well. Trump is a vile person. But from the two available options, he's the lesser of two evils. I've grown up being a left-wing ideologist and I consider myself a centrist today. It just took people like AOC to push me all the way over into the realm of, well, not falling victim to populist rhetoric that is based in the realm of fantasy. By that I mean, of course, her ridiculous Green New Deal plan. Luckily a plan that Biden doesn't support, his one redeeming quality from the last debate.

dsauerbrun 6y ago
What does this have to do with long lines?
matsemann 6y ago
It's hilarious how so many on the far-right label themselves as centrists and then blame the left on "forcing" them to vote right.
- wutbrodo 6y ago
  Truly incredible how much nonsense you managed to lack into such a brief comment. What about the parent comment sounds "far right" to you? In a two-party system, everyone's vote is a combination of push and pull, which means that it's incredibly normal for a bad candidate to help determine your vote (or as you dishonestly framed it, "force" you to vote otherwise). Isn't that what all the "anyone but Trump" voters are saying? I happen to be fairly happy with Biden, so it doesn't directly apply to me, but I would have voted for any of the Dem primary candidates over Trump, and for the ones I didn't like, he would've "forced" me to vote for them.
- 734129837261 6y ago
  I'm not forced at all. I'm left in a lot of ways that the right would never agree with. I am in favour of cherry-picking from socialist traits like proper welfare, affordable health care and schooling, higher taxes. But the left-wing people just go to the next extreme, that's where you'll hear populist rhetoric like "take it from the billionaires" and other such nonsense that will accomplish nothing for obvious reasons. I don't assign loyalty to the Republicans nor the Democrats. I think both are terrible for the USA.
DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
This is a conversation I'd like to have, but I'm not sure the thread will survive long on HN. If you're left wanting for more discussion, please feel free to DM me.
nicoffeine 6y ago
> That has mostly to do with the Democrats being overly populistic about all the concerns, without offering any solutions > It just took people like AOC to push me all the way over into the realm of, well, not falling victim to populist rhetoric that is based in the realm of fantasy. > By that I mean, of course, her ridiculous Green New Deal plan Pick a lane, my friend. There's a big difference between "don't offer any solutions" and "I don't like their solutions." What specifically don't you like about the Green New Deal? What about one of the hundreds of bills that passed in the House but have not been allowed to come to the floor of the Senate? Trump's GOP is worse than not offering any solutions. They are invested in pretending that racism, a shrinking middle class, and climate change do not exist.
theandrewbailey 6y ago
> I've never voted for the POTUS and I expect I never will. Assuming you are a US citizen eligible to vote, your willful self disenfranchisement renders the rest of your opinions moot to me. > By that I mean, of course, her ridiculous Green New Deal plan. Luckily a plan that Biden doesn't support, his one redeeming quality from the last debate. I hate to break it to you, he does: https://joebiden.com/climate-plan/ https://joebiden.com/climate-plan/ > Biden believes the Green New Deal is a crucial framework for meeting the climate challenges we face.
openasocket 6y ago
On the Green New Deal front, I want to point out that people debating it are largely talking past one another. The actual Green New Deal is HR 109 and SRes 59, the text of which is here: https://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/sites/ocasio-cortez.house.gov/files/Resolution%20on%20a%20Green%20New%20Deal.pdf https://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/sites/ocasio-cortez.house.go... . It is a non-binding resolution, meaning it does not actually change any laws or implement any policies, it's simply a statement that the House would like something to happen. It's literally just a statement of intent that we should get to zero net emissions. You'll hear people tout numbers about it costing $100 trillion dollars or something ridiculous, but it's simply not possible to calculate the cost of a vague goal. You'll also hear people claiming things like that the Green New Deal will ban airplanes, but again this is a non-binding resolution, and it doesn't even describe anything as specific as solid policy proposals. Don't get me wrong, we absolutely should debate the climate policy in the US. And we can refer to such policies as the "Green New Deal". But in debates people often act like the Green New Deal is a literal set of laws and policies written down.
manishsharan 6y ago
I am curious about your opposition to the Green New Deal plan. Could you explain why you think it is ridiculous ? I am a Canadian Liberal .... I may not agree with you but I am looking to understand your position.

dsauerbrun 6y ago

What does this have to do with long lines?

matsemann 6y ago

It's hilarious how so many on the far-right label themselves as centrists and then blame the left on "forcing" them to vote right.

wutbrodo 6y ago
Truly incredible how much nonsense you managed to lack into such a brief comment. What about the parent comment sounds "far right" to you? In a two-party system, everyone's vote is a combination of push and pull, which means that it's incredibly normal for a bad candidate to help determine your vote (or as you dishonestly framed it, "force" you to vote otherwise). Isn't that what all the "anyone but Trump" voters are saying? I happen to be fairly happy with Biden, so it doesn't directly apply to me, but I would have voted for any of the Dem primary candidates over Trump, and for the ones I didn't like, he would've "forced" me to vote for them.
734129837261 6y ago
I'm not forced at all. I'm left in a lot of ways that the right would never agree with. I am in favour of cherry-picking from socialist traits like proper welfare, affordable health care and schooling, higher taxes. But the left-wing people just go to the next extreme, that's where you'll hear populist rhetoric like "take it from the billionaires" and other such nonsense that will accomplish nothing for obvious reasons. I don't assign loyalty to the Republicans nor the Democrats. I think both are terrible for the USA.

DoofusOfDeath 6y ago

This is a conversation I'd like to have, but I'm not sure the thread will survive long on HN. If you're left wanting for more discussion, please feel free to DM me.

nicoffeine 6y ago

> That has mostly to do with the Democrats being overly populistic about all the concerns, without offering any solutions > It just took people like AOC to push me all the way over into the realm of, well, not falling victim to populist rhetoric that is based in the realm of fantasy. > By that I mean, of course, her ridiculous Green New Deal plan Pick a lane, my friend. There's a big difference between "don't offer any solutions" and "I don't like their solutions." What specifically don't you like about the Green New Deal? What about one of the hundreds of bills that passed in the House but have not been allowed to come to the floor of the Senate? Trump's GOP is worse than not offering any solutions. They are invested in pretending that racism, a shrinking middle class, and climate change do not exist.

theandrewbailey 6y ago

> I've never voted for the POTUS and I expect I never will. Assuming you are a US citizen eligible to vote, your willful self disenfranchisement renders the rest of your opinions moot to me. > By that I mean, of course, her ridiculous Green New Deal plan. Luckily a plan that Biden doesn't support, his one redeeming quality from the last debate. I hate to break it to you, he does: https://joebiden.com/climate-plan/ https://joebiden.com/climate-plan/ > Biden believes the Green New Deal is a crucial framework for meeting the climate challenges we face.

openasocket 6y ago

On the Green New Deal front, I want to point out that people debating it are largely talking past one another. The actual Green New Deal is HR 109 and SRes 59, the text of which is here: https://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/sites/ocasio-cortez.house.gov/files/Resolution%20on%20a%20Green%20New%20Deal.pdf https://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/sites/ocasio-cortez.house.go... . It is a non-binding resolution, meaning it does not actually change any laws or implement any policies, it's simply a statement that the House would like something to happen. It's literally just a statement of intent that we should get to zero net emissions. You'll hear people tout numbers about it costing $100 trillion dollars or something ridiculous, but it's simply not possible to calculate the cost of a vague goal. You'll also hear people claiming things like that the Green New Deal will ban airplanes, but again this is a non-binding resolution, and it doesn't even describe anything as specific as solid policy proposals. Don't get me wrong, we absolutely should debate the climate policy in the US. And we can refer to such policies as the "Green New Deal". But in debates people often act like the Green New Deal is a literal set of laws and policies written down.

manishsharan 6y ago

I am curious about your opposition to the Green New Deal plan. Could you explain why you think it is ridiculous ? I am a Canadian Liberal .... I may not agree with you but I am looking to understand your position.