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No one should be surprised by this. This program was simply another extension of the US's march towards authoritarianism. Much like the patriot act and our secr
by Grimm1 6y ago
No one should be surprised by this. This program was simply another extension of the US's march towards authoritarianism. Much like the patriot act and our secret warrants, founded on a dubious premise that over the last 20 years have largely borne no fruit in terms of protecting our freedoms and safety but have instead eroded them. This is a system designed to protect the larger system from any civs who may be getting a little too rebellious.
- MarcellusDrum 6y agoThe "Patriot Act" is so maliciously named its more funny than sad. Reminds me of George Carlin's show about changing words to make them softer.[1] An good example he used to show this is the condition the fighters get from shock in combat. In WW1, it was called Shell Shock, a terrifying name. The same condition in WW1 was called Battle Fatigue, a nicer name. In the Korean War, the name changed to Operational Exhaustion, removing any humanity from it. After the Vietnam War, the name because Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. When you compare the terms "Shell Shock" and "PTSD", it's obvious what the intent is. [1]: https://youtu.be/vuEQixrBKCc https://youtu.be/vuEQixrBKCc
- tingol 6y agoWell "fatigue", "exhaustion" and "shock" imply you could just get over those, as medicine advanced we got a better picture of what it is, hence the more precise term now. As for the "Patriot Act", it's funny how ironic of a name it is.
- Nasrudith 6y agoThere was a predecessor name to Shellshock of "Soldier's Heart" back in the American Civil war. In such a brother against brother civil war it wouldn't have been judged shameful but with later militarism could have implied "weakness" against the propaganda dehumanized foreign menance. Assuring memory held to WWI and it wasn't an independent rediscovery/reinvention "shell shock" dodged the character image driven denial of having it or its existance by implying more physical damage as even valiant brave men are not immune to bullets and explosions. Men were facing charges of cowardice after fleeing vast trauma and it eased accepting "the man who fled after a many months long bloody stalemate isn't a craven but bearing invisible injuries sustained for his country so executing him would be a terrible wrong". Thus ironically shell shock could be called an ego saving euphemism itself. And well authoritarians have no sense of irony - what they think is "ironic" is presenting their true self when it unacceptable and passing it off as a joke. Thus they destroy freedom to protect freedom the same as they destroy the village to save it.
- dumpsterdiver 6y ago> And well authoritarians have no sense of irony - what they think is "ironic" is presenting their true self when it unacceptable and passing it off as a joke. (squints) I think you've actually uncovered a true case of irony here. How would you know that the dictator considers their propoganda ironic? The fact that people read it and still laugh it off is the true irony.
- scoutt 6y agoIt comes to my mind the names of the ministries in 1984 (Ministry of Plenty, Ministry of Love).
- bigbubba 6y agoThe Department of War became the Department of Defense.
- funcDropShadow 6y agoDon't forget the Ministry of Truth.
- Romanulus 6y ago... Battle Fatigue!
- mtgx 6y agoAs is "Homeland Security" Also, it seems Biden bragged about writing the bill for the Patriot Act.
- jogjayr 6y agoThe intent isn't to make it softer though. "PTSD" is more accurate than "shell shock". In WWI they thought that the accumulated shockwave exposure from constant shelling caused mental issues in soldiers. Today we know that all sorts of stressful situations can cause PTSD; it doesn't require being in the trenches taking howitzer fire day and night.
- antris 6y agoThe point Carlin was trying to make is that the human experience is removed from a term such as "post-traumatic stress disorder". Yes, it might be more medically accurate, but fighting for the rights of people who experienced "shell shock" might have been more impactful. When your experienced is buried underneath medical terms, you bury the humanity of it.
- bumby 6y agoA plausible counterpoint is that renaming can also remove a lot of the social stigma, leading to more people getting treatment. As an example, I believe many prefer using the term "post-traumatic stress/PTS" now because it removes the "disorder" stigma. I.e., it better communicates that it's a natural reaction to such stress and nothing to be ashamed of [1]https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/mental-health/ptsd/related/pts-vs-ptsd/ https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/mental-health/ptsd/relate...
- bigbubba 6y agoYou might be right that this motivates the 'euphemism treadmill', but if so I think that's misguided. It's my personal belief that the stigma follows the condition itself (particularly when untreated), not the name given to the condition. When I was a kid my friends and I all knew that you had to step light around some people's fathers because they were Vietnam vets with hair triggers that would go ballistic for seemingly little reason. In retrospect these men obviously had PTSD, though as kids we knew it as 'He's an asshole because Nam fucked him up.'
- 6y ago
- anjel 6y agoGovernment obfuscation by nomenclature is a useful and reliable tell.
- seg_lol 6y agoCould one use NLP/ML to score a metric on the distance between the phrase and the concept? I think it needs some historical context as well. Like when "School of the Americas" got renamed to, "Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation" which are both names for sniping civilians and throwing people out of helicopters. I could see _eating a copper banana_ as a euphemism for assassinating a south american labor leader. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_for_Security_Cooperation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_f...
- funcDropShadow 6y agoPerhaps we should first try to teach the difference to more people, before we try to teach it to an AI.
- mekboy 6y agoprism was rebranded as semantic web
- tobr 6y ago> The "Patriot Act" is so maliciously named its more funny than sad. > Reminds me of George Carlin's show about changing words to make them softer.[1] “Patriot” isn’t exactly a soft word, though? I never understood why this brand of nationalism is so completely embraced and unquestioned in every fraction of the American political spectrum. It’s not like nationalism is unproblematic.
- onedognight 6y agoWhat examples do you have an authoritarian slide caused by PRISM? I see plenty of examples of authoritarianism in the current U.S. administration, none of which can be traced to PRISM.
- Grimm1 6y agoPRISM is part of the authoritarian slide, a symptom not the cause.
- artificialLimbs 6y agoI am interested in knowing your examples.
- orthecreedence 6y agoPRISM is a good one...? National security letters as well. Black sites. The penal/prison system in general.
- artificialLimbs 6y agoNone of these originated in the current administration.
- orthecreedence 6y agoSo what? > This program was simply another extension of the US's march towards authoritarianism. That was the original claim. You're the only one who's talking about the current administration.
- artificialLimbs 6y agoonedogright: "I see plenty of examples of authoritarianism in the current U.S. administration" Oooohk...
- 6y ago
- slg 6y ago>largely borne no fruit in terms of protecting our freedoms and safety but have instead eroded them. If we actually want to convince people that this needs change, we need to hold both sides of the debate to the same standard. We searched for any concrete evidence of these measures adding safety, found none, and then concluded it didn't add safety. The next step is to look for concrete examples of how this erodes freedom for a normal American citizen. Otherwise you are arguing one theoretical with another and most people will tune out.
- Grimm1 6y agoThe act of secretly (or I guess not so secretly now) monitoring civilian information is a loss of a freedom in and of itself. Freedom from undue government interference in an otherwise normal citizen's life. It's existence is confirmation in and of itself, another overreach.
- slg 6y agoWhat do you mean in tangible and concrete terms? How has my life been made worse by these laws? You need to explain that because these abstract concepts don't seem to motivate people to action.
- Grimm1 6y agoYour life is worse because the government is openly antagonist towards the populace it was created to serve. Even if it doesn't effect you now all you need to do is look at historical examples from other nations going down the same path. There's a reason the poem "First they came ..." exists and it's a direct counter point to the argument you're making. Otherwise I don't know what you want here, historically the masses mostly don't do anything until they start starving. Most large acts of rebellion were put together by a small band of agitators often high ranking members of the establishment who for whatever reason decide they've had enough then publicize and promote it and then often pay the common folk to fight. The US for instance was majority founded by a bunch of rich people who were tired of the type of taxes levied on them. The continental army for instance was paid to fight. My point being is any action is going to be taken by people who care about the abstract notions, the rank and file will be paid to care or provided some equal material value.
- aww_dang 6y agoIf you liked "post 9/11" you're going to love "new normal".
- devenblake 6y agoIf wearing a mask stopped the government from being able to listen in on my phone calls I'd wear it in the shower. This new normal means I don't have to put on deodorant and I can get away with shaving every other day, I love it.
- Dirlewanger 6y agoAt a recent happy hour, a friend-of-a-friend who is into all government conspiracy theories (including thinking Covid is a hoax) was there. It got kind of heated, and one question I asked him was "If the government is so hellbent on instituting surveillance technology everywhere, why would they also advocate for you to wear a mask, which hinders current face recognition capabilities?" Unsurprisingly, he didn't have an answer.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago>...why would they also advocate for you to wear a mask, which hinders current face recognition capabilities? Not a very good conspiracy theorist! Obviously 'person' recognition tools, facial recognition included, are good enough that models work without facial data, hindering America's enemies but giving America the upper hand. This uses the assumption that miltech is anywhere from 10-100 years ahead of bleeding edge/experimental public/research tech. I don't buy this theory but it's fun to consider.
- Nasrudith 6y agoThe dumb counterfactual assumption but "logical" reason is they already have a working facial recognition profile of everyone without a mask but they need more masked training data to work around it and can't simply digitally add a mask to their old training set. Contradicted by what we know about current facial recognition technology but in a "make sure that the bullets are sterile, we don't want any wounded prisoners to die of an infection before we get any intelligence" sort of way.
- lawnchair_larry 6y agoIt has nothing to do with that whatsoever. Who specifically do you think is concerned about civilians being a little too rebellious? As usual, the truth is far less interesting. But, it has nothing to do with civilian unrest or authoritarianism at all. You are probably mistaking incompetence for malice. Then again, most people still misunderstand what PRISM actually was.
- Grimm1 6y agoIf you believe you have some keen insight do share.
- 36373644664 6y agoI say good, if anything I want this funded even more. I watched a bunch of BLM protestors tear apart my downtown while local politicians held back the police because they were scared of looking racist. I want federal power expanded until I live in a country that doesn't tolerate arson and murder again. People had their chance to show the merits of an unmonitored society, I got a neighborhood full of businesses with boarded up windows because of it.