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I'm a bit older, but I found as well that my mental health didn't fare as bad as I'd feared it would when I first figured out (February) how bad this thing was

I'm a bit older, but I found as well that my mental health didn't fare as bad as I'd feared it would when I first figured out (February) how bad this thing was going to be. In the 2010s, corporate capitalism seemed eternal and unassailable. Dysfunctional, yes, but geared toward entrenchment and self-acceleration (fascism) rather than collapse. COVID-19 proved corporate capitalism invalid. I would have rather seen socialism succeed than capitalism fail and certain I wish we hadn't had to see over a million people die because of our economic system, but nevertheless, this is an opportunity for the left. Universal basic income is now a mainstream position. Trump, who would have probably be winning if COVID-19 hadn't happened, is now the underdog. I feel a lot of sympathy for people who are, for the first time in their life, experiencing mental distress, serious ill-health, and disability. I don't mean to understate that. I'm not happy that COVID-19 happened, and I don't think anyone is. For me, though, the uncertainty has kept me going. There's a lot to be afraid of, but there's also cause for hope. It is now not merely a growing sentiment but common knowledge that our economic elite must be overthrown, no matter the cost.

OneGuy123 6y ago
Some form of universal basic income will be sooner or later needed. The question is how do we get there without becoming Venezuela and eating rats.
- o_class_star 6y ago
  Venezuela was done-in by so-called "Dutch disease"-- over-reliance on natural resource extraction, including subsidies for gasoline that made it nearly free-- and Chavez's corruption. He allowed his buddies to buy dollars at the "official" exchange rate which was 4 orders of magnitude out of line with the market rate. Flat-out robbery of the Venezuelan people. Corporate capitalism is theft, but that doesn't mean all socialists are good or that no socialists are thieves.
  - Broken_Hippo 6y ago
    Very much this. And don't forget, Venezuela isn't really led by folks that care about their people nor do the elections seem free or fair. I think one of the real issues in doing socialist policies in the US is that the US's level of corruption and lack of care for other folks (at a government level) is more reminiscent of Venezuela and other corrupt regimes - and has been for years. There is not much trust in government and government doesn't seem keen on building such a thing. We could go and base things more off of Nordic nations, but it is going to require more transparency, front-facing government that simply works without punishing people for not being perfect, and some major trust-building. (Initiatives like the reworking of the Indiana DMV are in order: I no longer hated the DMV there, and it can be even better with some work). We don't necessarily need any of this for some socialist policies, such as health care. There are plenty of examples around the globe we can source from to customize it to our population. We can make the tax code easier for average people in most situations to deal with as well simply to remove some friction.
    - lki876 6y ago
      > We could go and base things more off of Nordic nations They're very much capitalist though.
      - ceejayoz 6y ago
        There's a meme I've seen going around. "Socialism never works." "Norway is socialist and they're doing great." "They're not socialist! They're capitalist countries with strong welfare systems." "Then let's adopt those policies!" "No, that's socialism!"
      - pjc50 6y ago
        "Social democrat", which is a category that hardly anyone in the US seems to understand.
        tehjoker 6y ago
        That term is funny because it basically means capitalism with a human face these days, but if you read Lenin, the big communists were talking about the fight for "Social Democracy" in the early 20th century. Terms get so diluted lol
  - lki876 6y ago
    > Venezuela was done-in by so-called "Dutch disease"-- over-reliance on natural resource extraction There is always an excuse and yet after some 20+ experiments the pattern is always the same. The only thing that keeps changing are the excuses.
    - o_class_star 6y ago
      Socialism has seen plenty of successes. And yes, it has seem some failures. The problem with communism is that it has too much history. It has a record, some of which is ugly, some of which is littered by some really awful people who claimed (and claim) to be "communists". The problem with capitalism is that it has no history, no memory. It doesn't get better, and it doesn't learn. It's the same shit today that it was in the time of the Pinkertons. Government did get better at regulating it, but in the past 40 years it has gotten worse at doing so.
  - giancarlostoro 6y ago
    Capitalism has yielded more benefits including raising the global GDP per capita since the industrial revolution. Now centuries later its capitalism thats the problem all of a sudden, am I misunderstanding you? Socialism on full blast will eventually run itself dry especially if enough people just seize to work driving down the profits keeping the system running.
    - frockington1 6y ago
      If my country goes socialist I'd move my profits offshore and I imagine most other productive members of society would as well. I think most socialism believers fail to understand how globalism will play into all of this
    - giancarlostoro 6y ago
      Would be nice if people who downvote were forced to comment as part of the process, if I am wrong tell me why. I post for discussion, disagreeing is part of a discussion. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Here's some reality about the global GDP rising since the industrial revolution: https://www.core-econ.org/the-economy/book/text/01.html https://www.core-econ.org/the-economy/book/text/01.html https://www.core-econ.org/the-economy/book/images/web/figure-01-01-a.jpg https://www.core-econ.org/the-economy/book/images/web/figure...
      - kortilla 6y ago
        It is favor politically unsavory right now to acknowledge any good capitalism has done. You’re going to be downvoted because people have been trained to react to what you said like you just suggested slavery wasn’t too bad.
        giancarlostoro 6y ago
        I wouldnt say slavery isnt too bad its horrible. But I hear ya I just rather they bring facts to the table instead of hiding being a button.
  - lki876 6y ago
    > Capitalism is theft You write, I reply, you reply to me and so on. You do your neighbour a favor and remember that. If you keep doing them favors and they won't help you, you'll stop helping them. The list of examples is long and and pattern is the same: humans keep track of "balances". This isn't a system that we invented or discovered, it's who we are and how we work.
  - newen 6y ago
    Venezuela was done in by severe sanctions imposed on the country by USA. Any other excuse is just the typical propaganda you see in American news media.
- TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
  Parts of the US are already like that. You're lucky you don't live in one, but many people do. And unless you have significant savings, even more people are less than six months and a depression/recession job loss away from there.
- gonzo41 6y ago
  Buy a copy of the SAS survival guide and trap larger animals for better protein.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- kazagistar 6y ago
  If you wanna avoid becoming Venezuela, just avoid being specifically targeted by US economic siege ("sanctions"). Which is pretty simple if you are the US.

OneGuy123 6y ago

Some form of universal basic income will be sooner or later needed. The question is how do we get there without becoming Venezuela and eating rats.

o_class_star 6y ago
Venezuela was done-in by so-called "Dutch disease"-- over-reliance on natural resource extraction, including subsidies for gasoline that made it nearly free-- and Chavez's corruption. He allowed his buddies to buy dollars at the "official" exchange rate which was 4 orders of magnitude out of line with the market rate. Flat-out robbery of the Venezuelan people. Corporate capitalism is theft, but that doesn't mean all socialists are good or that no socialists are thieves.
- Broken_Hippo 6y ago
  Very much this. And don't forget, Venezuela isn't really led by folks that care about their people nor do the elections seem free or fair. I think one of the real issues in doing socialist policies in the US is that the US's level of corruption and lack of care for other folks (at a government level) is more reminiscent of Venezuela and other corrupt regimes - and has been for years. There is not much trust in government and government doesn't seem keen on building such a thing. We could go and base things more off of Nordic nations, but it is going to require more transparency, front-facing government that simply works without punishing people for not being perfect, and some major trust-building. (Initiatives like the reworking of the Indiana DMV are in order: I no longer hated the DMV there, and it can be even better with some work). We don't necessarily need any of this for some socialist policies, such as health care. There are plenty of examples around the globe we can source from to customize it to our population. We can make the tax code easier for average people in most situations to deal with as well simply to remove some friction.
  - lki876 6y ago
    > We could go and base things more off of Nordic nations They're very much capitalist though.
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      There's a meme I've seen going around. "Socialism never works." "Norway is socialist and they're doing great." "They're not socialist! They're capitalist countries with strong welfare systems." "Then let's adopt those policies!" "No, that's socialism!"
    - pjc50 6y ago
      "Social democrat", which is a category that hardly anyone in the US seems to understand.
      - tehjoker 6y ago
        That term is funny because it basically means capitalism with a human face these days, but if you read Lenin, the big communists were talking about the fight for "Social Democracy" in the early 20th century. Terms get so diluted lol
- lki876 6y ago
  > Venezuela was done-in by so-called "Dutch disease"-- over-reliance on natural resource extraction There is always an excuse and yet after some 20+ experiments the pattern is always the same. The only thing that keeps changing are the excuses.
  - o_class_star 6y ago
    Socialism has seen plenty of successes. And yes, it has seem some failures. The problem with communism is that it has too much history. It has a record, some of which is ugly, some of which is littered by some really awful people who claimed (and claim) to be "communists". The problem with capitalism is that it has no history, no memory. It doesn't get better, and it doesn't learn. It's the same shit today that it was in the time of the Pinkertons. Government did get better at regulating it, but in the past 40 years it has gotten worse at doing so.
- giancarlostoro 6y ago
  Capitalism has yielded more benefits including raising the global GDP per capita since the industrial revolution. Now centuries later its capitalism thats the problem all of a sudden, am I misunderstanding you? Socialism on full blast will eventually run itself dry especially if enough people just seize to work driving down the profits keeping the system running.
  - frockington1 6y ago
    If my country goes socialist I'd move my profits offshore and I imagine most other productive members of society would as well. I think most socialism believers fail to understand how globalism will play into all of this
  - giancarlostoro 6y ago
    Would be nice if people who downvote were forced to comment as part of the process, if I am wrong tell me why. I post for discussion, disagreeing is part of a discussion. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Here's some reality about the global GDP rising since the industrial revolution: https://www.core-econ.org/the-economy/book/text/01.html https://www.core-econ.org/the-economy/book/text/01.html https://www.core-econ.org/the-economy/book/images/web/figure-01-01-a.jpg https://www.core-econ.org/the-economy/book/images/web/figure...
    - kortilla 6y ago
      It is favor politically unsavory right now to acknowledge any good capitalism has done. You’re going to be downvoted because people have been trained to react to what you said like you just suggested slavery wasn’t too bad.
      - giancarlostoro 6y ago
        I wouldnt say slavery isnt too bad its horrible. But I hear ya I just rather they bring facts to the table instead of hiding being a button.
- lki876 6y ago
  > Capitalism is theft You write, I reply, you reply to me and so on. You do your neighbour a favor and remember that. If you keep doing them favors and they won't help you, you'll stop helping them. The list of examples is long and and pattern is the same: humans keep track of "balances". This isn't a system that we invented or discovered, it's who we are and how we work.
- newen 6y ago
  Venezuela was done in by severe sanctions imposed on the country by USA. Any other excuse is just the typical propaganda you see in American news media.
TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
Parts of the US are already like that. You're lucky you don't live in one, but many people do. And unless you have significant savings, even more people are less than six months and a depression/recession job loss away from there.
gonzo41 6y ago
Buy a copy of the SAS survival guide and trap larger animals for better protein.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
kazagistar 6y ago
If you wanna avoid becoming Venezuela, just avoid being specifically targeted by US economic siege ("sanctions"). Which is pretty simple if you are the US.