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> explaining to experienced developers and new people exactly how to use CSS variables Don't? They don't work in IE. By the time you've written a fallback you'

by rriepe 6y ago

> explaining to experienced developers and new people exactly how to use CSS variables Don't? They don't work in IE. By the time you've written a fallback you've complicated things just as much as Less/Sass would but without the benefits of those.

chrismorgan 6y ago
Please actively seek to not support IE. It’s long-obsolete and needs to die. By supporting it, you help to keep it alive, which makes trouble for all of us. (“Why doesn’t your site work on IE? Their site does!”—and all of a sudden there’s pressure for you to support IE.) If you don’t have any evidence that you need to support it, I strongly recommend deliberately removing support for it, whether that means just not caring if it works or not or actively breaking it (though please implement that as an IE blacklist, not a certain-browsers whitelist). If you do have evidence that you need to support it, push to remove it, even if you can’t remove it just yet. If you can stop supporting IE, it will make your life easier and it will make my life easier.
- rriepe 6y ago
  If I have even one user on IE I'm going to pick him over you
- franga2000 6y ago
  I hate IE as much as the next guy, but PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS! s/IE/Firefox/g to see why. Polyfills are available for most of the usual things and they're absolutely trivial to implement. No one is asking you for IE6 support (if they are, ignore them), but IE11 can do most things decently with minimal effort. As long as a browser is receiving mainstream support and the effort isn't too much, you should be at least minimally supporting it.
  - chrismorgan 6y ago
    I’m saying this specifically about a piece of obsolete technology. Firefox is in no way obsolete, so the comparison is entirely inapplicable. Polyfills are available for most things but they’re not trivial, and they have a meaningful cost in two axes: developer effort, and performance. Things like CSS Flex, CSS Grid, SVG, and ECMAScript 6+ functionality can all be made to work in IE (with a few exceptions, like grid auto placement), but only by making things heavier, typically for everyone. Other things that are really nice to be able to depend on like CSS Custom Properties and more recent ECMAScript syntax (e.g. modules) either can’t be used outright, or require much more extensive working around which still restricts what you can do in all the other browsers. Speaking as someone who has had to maintain IE11 support for a couple of things within the last few years, it seriously is a real drain that contributes more code, bugs (not just for the offending browser) and simple complexity than many realise. IE is not receiving mainstream support. The effort is too much. You should either ignore it, or, if people are trying to get support on specific issues in it, strongly consider actively scuppering it. IE is dead. Let it stay dead.

by rriepe 6y ago

chrismorgan 6y ago

Please actively seek to not support IE. It’s long-obsolete and needs to die. By supporting it, you help to keep it alive, which makes trouble for all of us. (“Why doesn’t your site work on IE? Their site does!”—and all of a sudden there’s pressure for you to support IE.) If you don’t have any evidence that you need to support it, I strongly recommend deliberately removing support for it, whether that means just not caring if it works or not or actively breaking it (though please implement that as an IE blacklist, not a certain-browsers whitelist). If you do have evidence that you need to support it, push to remove it, even if you can’t remove it just yet. If you can stop supporting IE, it will make your life easier and it will make my life easier.

rriepe 6y ago
If I have even one user on IE I'm going to pick him over you
franga2000 6y ago
I hate IE as much as the next guy, but PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS! s/IE/Firefox/g to see why. Polyfills are available for most of the usual things and they're absolutely trivial to implement. No one is asking you for IE6 support (if they are, ignore them), but IE11 can do most things decently with minimal effort. As long as a browser is receiving mainstream support and the effort isn't too much, you should be at least minimally supporting it.
- chrismorgan 6y ago
  I’m saying this specifically about a piece of obsolete technology. Firefox is in no way obsolete, so the comparison is entirely inapplicable. Polyfills are available for most things but they’re not trivial, and they have a meaningful cost in two axes: developer effort, and performance. Things like CSS Flex, CSS Grid, SVG, and ECMAScript 6+ functionality can all be made to work in IE (with a few exceptions, like grid auto placement), but only by making things heavier, typically for everyone. Other things that are really nice to be able to depend on like CSS Custom Properties and more recent ECMAScript syntax (e.g. modules) either can’t be used outright, or require much more extensive working around which still restricts what you can do in all the other browsers. Speaking as someone who has had to maintain IE11 support for a couple of things within the last few years, it seriously is a real drain that contributes more code, bugs (not just for the offending browser) and simple complexity than many realise. IE is not receiving mainstream support. The effort is too much. You should either ignore it, or, if people are trying to get support on specific issues in it, strongly consider actively scuppering it. IE is dead. Let it stay dead.