4 ms·

But in the UK everyone knows that it's only going to be 3 series at 6 episodes each, and so that's how the show is written. The viewer gets a satisfying arc. N

by DanBC 6y ago

But in the UK everyone knows that it's only going to be 3 series at 6 episodes each, and so that's how the show is written. The viewer gets a satisfying arc. Netflix just pulls the plug. This means you get a weird kludged together final episode to try to pull stuff together or they just leave it and there's no resolution for a lot of stuff. I do agree that many of these shows would be better if they were written in the UK style. A lot of US shows now just feel woolly as they meander through the plot.

ianai 6y ago
Netflix hasn’t met the equilibrium the same way yet.
hef19898 6y ago
This way of writing, at least the overall arc, really shows. Ideally, writers know when to stop. The Revenge had such an ending, it was Season 3 if I remember well, before it turned into yet another soap opera. Babylon 5 on the other hand was a great example of having the whole 5 seasons basically written before they started production.
- danaris 6y ago
  Babylon 5 is actually a great example of what happens when you mess with cancellations. During the production of season 4, JMS (the creator) was given to understand that season 5 was unlikely to happen. So he had to cram most of the rest of his plot into that season. Having such a powerful, story-packed season 4 meant it did really well. So they put season 5 back on. But he'd already used up (most of) the story he wanted to tell, because they told him he wasn't getting a season 5. So the season 5 we got ended up being a bit weak and wandering, with only the last few episodes (which were part of what would have been the ending of season 4, if he hadn't found out in time that there would be a season 5) having the same strength and memorability as the season 4 episodes. It also meant (IIRC) that they lost some important actors, like Claudia Christian, for season 5. If Ivanova had been able to stay on to be B5's captain after Sheridan became President, the final season would have been much stronger.
  - hef19898 6y ago
    Thanks for refreshing my memory! Loosing Claudia Christian resembles, for different reasons, loosing Terry Farrel for season 7 of DS9. Which, if you ask me, had quite some impact on Gul Dukats story arch. Whcih wasn't the best in season 7 after he was such a great villain over the whole series before.
  - Izkata 6y ago
    > But he'd already used up (most of) the story he wanted to tell, because they told him he wasn't getting a season 5. So the season 5 we got ended up being a bit weak and wandering, with only the last few episodes (which were part of what would have been the ending of season 4, if he hadn't found out in time that there would be a season 5) having the same strength and memorability as the season 4 episodes. All of season 5 was in the original plan as the side-stories for seasons 4 and 5, not written after the series was renewed. That's mainly why the filmed season 4 was so action-packed - the main plot wasn't really compressed in terms of screen time, instead there were no side plots. Aside from that, the finale, Sleeping in Light, was filmed during season 4, that's why Claudia Christian was in it. They found out about the renewal just barely in time to use some season 5 budget to film The Deconstruction of Falling Stars, which only then became the season 4 finale. I think that was really the only thing not in the original plan.
- soylentcola 6y ago
  This is one reason I really like the "miniseries" format. It's a broad enough label that it can include something a few 1-hr episodes long or 8 of them. I guess at the longer end, they're closer to a "season" of a typical show, but the idea is that it's a complete story arc with a defined beginning and end. I love how modern formats allow for stories to be told where they otherwise wouldn't fit into a single film or work as a weekly recurring series. I've always felt that a movie is like a short story: you're dropped into the plot and the background is exposed through the course of action. Longer formats like the miniseries can tell a story more on the scale of a full novel. When you get into stuff like "The Walking Dead" where it theoretically starts off like a novel but keeps renewing and keeps rehashing the same basic plot points for years, it's like one of those novel series where they just keep cranking out new sequels as long as people are buying them, quality be damned.
  - hef19898 6y ago
    Another great example. I lost interest when they introduced Neegan. He could have been such a great villain in theory, kind of the evil twin version of Rick Grimes. Instead he turned into that unbeatable-because-authors-want-him-unbeatable kind of comic villain.
- rleigh 6y ago
  Netflix has done similar stuff with Ascension, The Witcher, Altered Carbon and others. I do prefer quality over quantity, and more episodes per season isn't IMO a good thing. Having tight focus, telling a complete story from beginning to end, is more important than adding a lot of unnecessary filler. I wasn't the biggest fan of Altered Carbon, but thought Ascension was exemplary. While it finished with an ending that could have set it up for a second series, the story it told was complete, and leaving some mystery is no bad thing. I'm currently reading the Witcher books, and the series was a reasonable adaption of the content of the first two books of short stories. There's plenty more material for the future, but what was done in eight episodes was decent and self-contained. Way better value than a movie ticket. What I like about these short series is that they are free to take risks and make niche stuff that doesn't cater to the lowest common denominator. There's plenty of stuff on Netflix that doesn't appeal to me, and that's OK. There's also stuff that would appeal were it not poorly-written and produced dross. I would really prefer their "data driven" decision making to bear in mind the lasting appeal of these productions within their niche interest, rather than only using the initial response as an indicator of long-term success. Some of the best productions took years to develop a good following, and yet were successful beyond expectations.
  - 542354234235 6y ago
    It sounds like you only watched the first season of Altered Carbon. If true, just stop there. They made a second season with a slashed budget and also dialed back the sex and violence, making it overall very lackluster. Then, surprise, they cancelled it.
    - newdude 6y ago
      One of my favorite series (S1). Good observation the lack of sex and violence in the second one. Could be true. I thought the new "sleeve" actor killed the second. The one in the first season was much much more convincing.
      - hef19898 6y ago
        I watched season 1 and the first episode of season two. Stopped after that, I didn't want to ruin it for me.
dukoid 6y ago
Like the Tripods series? :.(

by DanBC 6y ago

ianai 6y ago

Netflix hasn’t met the equilibrium the same way yet.

hef19898 6y ago

This way of writing, at least the overall arc, really shows. Ideally, writers know when to stop. The Revenge had such an ending, it was Season 3 if I remember well, before it turned into yet another soap opera. Babylon 5 on the other hand was a great example of having the whole 5 seasons basically written before they started production.

danaris 6y ago
Babylon 5 is actually a great example of what happens when you mess with cancellations. During the production of season 4, JMS (the creator) was given to understand that season 5 was unlikely to happen. So he had to cram most of the rest of his plot into that season. Having such a powerful, story-packed season 4 meant it did really well. So they put season 5 back on. But he'd already used up (most of) the story he wanted to tell, because they told him he wasn't getting a season 5. So the season 5 we got ended up being a bit weak and wandering, with only the last few episodes (which were part of what would have been the ending of season 4, if he hadn't found out in time that there would be a season 5) having the same strength and memorability as the season 4 episodes. It also meant (IIRC) that they lost some important actors, like Claudia Christian, for season 5. If Ivanova had been able to stay on to be B5's captain after Sheridan became President, the final season would have been much stronger.
- hef19898 6y ago
  Thanks for refreshing my memory! Loosing Claudia Christian resembles, for different reasons, loosing Terry Farrel for season 7 of DS9. Which, if you ask me, had quite some impact on Gul Dukats story arch. Whcih wasn't the best in season 7 after he was such a great villain over the whole series before.
- Izkata 6y ago
  > But he'd already used up (most of) the story he wanted to tell, because they told him he wasn't getting a season 5. So the season 5 we got ended up being a bit weak and wandering, with only the last few episodes (which were part of what would have been the ending of season 4, if he hadn't found out in time that there would be a season 5) having the same strength and memorability as the season 4 episodes. All of season 5 was in the original plan as the side-stories for seasons 4 and 5, not written after the series was renewed. That's mainly why the filmed season 4 was so action-packed - the main plot wasn't really compressed in terms of screen time, instead there were no side plots. Aside from that, the finale, Sleeping in Light, was filmed during season 4, that's why Claudia Christian was in it. They found out about the renewal just barely in time to use some season 5 budget to film The Deconstruction of Falling Stars, which only then became the season 4 finale. I think that was really the only thing not in the original plan.
soylentcola 6y ago
This is one reason I really like the "miniseries" format. It's a broad enough label that it can include something a few 1-hr episodes long or 8 of them. I guess at the longer end, they're closer to a "season" of a typical show, but the idea is that it's a complete story arc with a defined beginning and end. I love how modern formats allow for stories to be told where they otherwise wouldn't fit into a single film or work as a weekly recurring series. I've always felt that a movie is like a short story: you're dropped into the plot and the background is exposed through the course of action. Longer formats like the miniseries can tell a story more on the scale of a full novel. When you get into stuff like "The Walking Dead" where it theoretically starts off like a novel but keeps renewing and keeps rehashing the same basic plot points for years, it's like one of those novel series where they just keep cranking out new sequels as long as people are buying them, quality be damned.
- hef19898 6y ago
  Another great example. I lost interest when they introduced Neegan. He could have been such a great villain in theory, kind of the evil twin version of Rick Grimes. Instead he turned into that unbeatable-because-authors-want-him-unbeatable kind of comic villain.
rleigh 6y ago
Netflix has done similar stuff with Ascension, The Witcher, Altered Carbon and others. I do prefer quality over quantity, and more episodes per season isn't IMO a good thing. Having tight focus, telling a complete story from beginning to end, is more important than adding a lot of unnecessary filler. I wasn't the biggest fan of Altered Carbon, but thought Ascension was exemplary. While it finished with an ending that could have set it up for a second series, the story it told was complete, and leaving some mystery is no bad thing. I'm currently reading the Witcher books, and the series was a reasonable adaption of the content of the first two books of short stories. There's plenty more material for the future, but what was done in eight episodes was decent and self-contained. Way better value than a movie ticket. What I like about these short series is that they are free to take risks and make niche stuff that doesn't cater to the lowest common denominator. There's plenty of stuff on Netflix that doesn't appeal to me, and that's OK. There's also stuff that would appeal were it not poorly-written and produced dross. I would really prefer their "data driven" decision making to bear in mind the lasting appeal of these productions within their niche interest, rather than only using the initial response as an indicator of long-term success. Some of the best productions took years to develop a good following, and yet were successful beyond expectations.
- 542354234235 6y ago
  It sounds like you only watched the first season of Altered Carbon. If true, just stop there. They made a second season with a slashed budget and also dialed back the sex and violence, making it overall very lackluster. Then, surprise, they cancelled it.
  - newdude 6y ago
    One of my favorite series (S1). Good observation the lack of sex and violence in the second one. Could be true. I thought the new "sleeve" actor killed the second. The one in the first season was much much more convincing.
    - hef19898 6y ago
      I watched season 1 and the first episode of season two. Stopped after that, I didn't want to ruin it for me.

dukoid 6y ago

Like the Tripods series? :.(