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That's a very American perspective. In the UK a series is usually only 6 episodes and few shows last more than two or three series. Compare the original UK ver

That's a very American perspective. In the UK a series is usually only 6 episodes and few shows last more than two or three series. Compare the original UK version of the Office and its American facsimile and I think you'll see it's much better to go out on a high rather than drag on endlessly. If the Simpsons had ended after a couple of seasons it would have been one of the best shows ever, instead the brain dead drivel they churn out for it now just continually diminishes its early greatness.

skohan 6y ago
Yes, but UK series are normally tied up neatly at the end and not left unresolved. If Netflix did the same, I doubt people would have a problem with it. edit: it's also purely a matter of opinion, but I got a lot more pure enjoyment from the US version of the Office than the UK one. They had more time to develop the characters and figure out what was truly funny about the show. Sure it devolved into sentimental fan service in the last few seasons, but at it's peak I was laughing way harder at the American version than I ever did for the British one.
DanBC 6y ago
But in the UK everyone knows that it's only going to be 3 series at 6 episodes each, and so that's how the show is written. The viewer gets a satisfying arc. Netflix just pulls the plug. This means you get a weird kludged together final episode to try to pull stuff together or they just leave it and there's no resolution for a lot of stuff. I do agree that many of these shows would be better if they were written in the UK style. A lot of US shows now just feel woolly as they meander through the plot.
- ianai 6y ago
  Netflix hasn’t met the equilibrium the same way yet.
- hef19898 6y ago
  This way of writing, at least the overall arc, really shows. Ideally, writers know when to stop. The Revenge had such an ending, it was Season 3 if I remember well, before it turned into yet another soap opera. Babylon 5 on the other hand was a great example of having the whole 5 seasons basically written before they started production.
  - danaris 6y ago
    Babylon 5 is actually a great example of what happens when you mess with cancellations. During the production of season 4, JMS (the creator) was given to understand that season 5 was unlikely to happen. So he had to cram most of the rest of his plot into that season. Having such a powerful, story-packed season 4 meant it did really well. So they put season 5 back on. But he'd already used up (most of) the story he wanted to tell, because they told him he wasn't getting a season 5. So the season 5 we got ended up being a bit weak and wandering, with only the last few episodes (which were part of what would have been the ending of season 4, if he hadn't found out in time that there would be a season 5) having the same strength and memorability as the season 4 episodes. It also meant (IIRC) that they lost some important actors, like Claudia Christian, for season 5. If Ivanova had been able to stay on to be B5's captain after Sheridan became President, the final season would have been much stronger.
    - hef19898 6y ago
      Thanks for refreshing my memory! Loosing Claudia Christian resembles, for different reasons, loosing Terry Farrel for season 7 of DS9. Which, if you ask me, had quite some impact on Gul Dukats story arch. Whcih wasn't the best in season 7 after he was such a great villain over the whole series before.
    - Izkata 6y ago
      > But he'd already used up (most of) the story he wanted to tell, because they told him he wasn't getting a season 5. So the season 5 we got ended up being a bit weak and wandering, with only the last few episodes (which were part of what would have been the ending of season 4, if he hadn't found out in time that there would be a season 5) having the same strength and memorability as the season 4 episodes. All of season 5 was in the original plan as the side-stories for seasons 4 and 5, not written after the series was renewed. That's mainly why the filmed season 4 was so action-packed - the main plot wasn't really compressed in terms of screen time, instead there were no side plots. Aside from that, the finale, Sleeping in Light, was filmed during season 4, that's why Claudia Christian was in it. They found out about the renewal just barely in time to use some season 5 budget to film The Deconstruction of Falling Stars, which only then became the season 4 finale. I think that was really the only thing not in the original plan.
- dukoid 6y ago
  Like the Tripods series? :.(
personlurking 6y ago
>In the UK a series is usually only 6 episodes and few shows last more than two or three series Inspector Morse (et al) come to mind as one that lasts longer. So many great British detective shows that go on for decades, with around 20 movie-length episodes per season (aka series).
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- mrec 6y ago
  > 20 movie-length episodes per season Is that a typo? Inspector Morse had a total of 33 episodes across 7 seasons and 5 specials. Seasons averaged about 4 eps each. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Inspector_Morse_episodes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Inspector_Morse_episod...
  - personlurking 6y ago
    I stand corrected. There was a time when I watched several shows like Morse (ie, Lewis, Frost, Foyle, Gently, Lynley, Marple, Midsomer) and I suppose it became a bit of a blur. It was a lot of long episodes, but not a lot of episodes (per season).
- caf 6y ago
  For "long lasting UK series" I tend to think of The Bill.
  - danaris 6y ago
    I'm sorry; for "long lasting UK series" it's really hard to beat Doctor Who... The Bill may have more episodes, but Doctor Who has been running for 20 years longer.
    - davidgay 6y ago
      > I'm sorry; for "long lasting UK series" it's really hard to beat Doctor Who... The prototypical "long lasting UK series" is actually https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronation_Street https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronation_Street (nearly 60 years, >10000 episodes)
paulcole 6y ago
The American version of the office had 75+ GREAT episodes (seasons 2,3,4, and most of 5) and the British version had 12 (plus the Christmas Special). The existence of the other 125 episodes doesn’t make those 75 any less great. Same with The Simpsons — the 8 year peak of seasons 1-8 means at least we got those episodes. I haven’t watched a new episode in over 20 years but revisit the early episodes often. I like the sandwiches on my favorite restaurant’s menu. Them serving the pasta dish I don’t like doesn’t make the sandwiches worse.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > 75+ GREAT episodes What does 'great' mean when you're assigning it to such a huge number of episodes? Are they truly great or just good?
  - paulcole 6y ago
    > GREAT Obviously any assessment of art is going to be subjective. But at the time, those 75 episodes were the either the GREATest thing on television or very close to it. They hold up today and are episodes that are just as GREAT to me on the 20th or 30th viewing as they were on the first.
    - billforsternz 6y ago
      20th or 30th viewing? Wow, I have so many questions. Are there other shows you give similar devotion to?
      - paulcole 6y ago
        I’ve seen every episode of Seinfeld, E.R., X-Files, Gilmore Girls, and a couple other shows 10+ times. Just watch ‘em on repeat lol. Ask me anything.
        monkeyshelli 6y ago
        I've seen Seinfeld so many times that now a days I just tap on the "random" option in VLC when watching it. X-files I've divided to two, MonsterOfTheWeek and "moves plot forward". Then randomly pick from the two buckets. Don't think there is any "new" series that I've watched over twice, I wonder why that is.
klmadfejno 6y ago
> I think you'll see it's much better to go out on a high rather than drag on endlessly. I don't. This might be true with dramas where the plot is a big component of it, but certainly not for episodic comedies. Yeah, the Simpsons isn't something I care to watch anymore, and the Office's final seasons without Michael Scott weren't as good. But I'd still much rather have more episodes of content I enjoy than less for the sake of "the complete package". It sucks when a show gets cancelled without an end, but while we're here, the American Office had a fine ending and I'm much happier with the many seasons of it over the British one.
abdullahkhalids 6y ago
In Pakistan, TV dramas are usually one season of 10-24 episodes. They are mostly written or sketched in detail by one primary writer, before shooting begins. Stories are fully completed and loose ends tied off by the end of the series.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
CoolGuySteve 6y ago
The Simpsons is actually a pretty good counterexample. The first season is so-so, the show didn’t really hit its stride until seasons 3-8 according to IMDB ratings: https://i.redd.it/p0or3k2rv6dz.jpg https://i.redd.it/p0or3k2rv6dz.jpg If The Simpsons was British, none of the best episodes would have been made.
- jacobion 6y ago
  > If The Simpsons was British, none of the best episodes would have been made. But neither would any of the 300 worst episodes.
  - dlivingston 6y ago
    The decline of The Simpsons from brilliant American sitcom into mindless consumerist drivel happens at around season 9 and is well documented as “Zombie Simpsons”: https://deadhomersociety.com/zombiesimpsons/ https://deadhomersociety.com/zombiesimpsons/
whywhywhywhy 6y ago
Thing is with a lot of American sitcoms is on a long enough timeline they just become soap operas. UK Office is a concise and witty comedy idea expressed in the correct amount of time the idea deserves. If you look at the later seasons of shows like US Office, Parks and Rec and similar shows, what you're watching has more in common with a soap opera than a sitcom. I feel I can almost count the exceptions to this on one hand.
- _qulr 6y ago
  Agreed. IMO the first few seasons of The Office (US) and Parks & Recreation were the best, and they went downhill over time. Very few shows can sustain quality over time. For sitcoms... maybe Seinfeld?
  - whywhywhywhy 6y ago
    Seinfeld is definitely one I'm thinking of, under weaker creative direction that would have easily fallen into the same soap opera trap.
    - _qulr 6y ago
      No hugging, no learning!
  - reducesuffering 6y ago
    It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia. 14 seasons strong. “It’s like Seinfeld on crack.”
yardie 6y ago
The Office UK vs the Office US is belies your point. Almost everyone agrees the US version was much better. The US 1st season tried to be like the UK original and was universally panned. That biting, British humour can only carry you so far. Also, the US version didn't carry on endlessly. Steve Carrell left after season 6 and the show lost it's momentum. But regained some of that magic before closing.
- mortehu 6y ago
  I would agree if it wasn't for duration neglect. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duration_neglect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duration_neglect
GnarfGnarf 6y ago
Do you mean "Seasons" instead of "Series"? A Series consists of one or more Seasons. A Season has episodes.
- gowld 6y ago
  Words have different meaning in different regions.
- DanBC 6y ago
  Here's an example of the UK use of the word "series", which would be called a "season" in other places. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_(series_10) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_(series_10) > The tenth series of the British science fiction television programme Doctor Who premiered on 15 April 2017 and concluded on 1 July 2017, and consisted of twelve episodes, after it was announced in July 2015 that BBC Worldwide had invested in a tenth series of the programme in its annual review. The series is led by head writer and executive producer Steven Moffat, alongside executive producer Brian Minchin. It is the third and final series overseen by the two as executive producers, as well as Moffat's sixth and final series as head writer. This series is the tenth to air following the programme's revival in 2005, and is the thirty-sixth season overall.
danjac 6y ago
Then we have Doctor Who, which has been going since 1963 (albeit with a long hiatus - at least on broadcast TV - from 1989 to 2005).
fenk85 6y ago
> That's a very American perspective. In the UK a series is usually only 6 episodes and few shows last more than two or three series. Points at Top Gear, Dr Who, Sky at Night etc which have gone on for decades
koyote 6y ago
I agree; you can really see the writing quality diminish when shows just go on forever. The original 'vision' is completely lost and you can almost hear the discussions between writers as they have to come up with new plot twists to make the story believable for yet another series/season. That's why I thoroughly enjoyed the German show Dark. They planned 3 series/seasons and that's what we got: a well-thought-out show from start to finish with a single vision of how the whole thing will end. That clue in the first episode? Yep, directly related to the ending in season/series 3 and not some, now inconsequential, detail the writers 'forgot about' or changed course over.

skohan 6y ago

Yes, but UK series are normally tied up neatly at the end and not left unresolved. If Netflix did the same, I doubt people would have a problem with it. edit: it's also purely a matter of opinion, but I got a lot more pure enjoyment from the US version of the Office than the UK one. They had more time to develop the characters and figure out what was truly funny about the show. Sure it devolved into sentimental fan service in the last few seasons, but at it's peak I was laughing way harder at the American version than I ever did for the British one.

DanBC 6y ago

But in the UK everyone knows that it's only going to be 3 series at 6 episodes each, and so that's how the show is written. The viewer gets a satisfying arc. Netflix just pulls the plug. This means you get a weird kludged together final episode to try to pull stuff together or they just leave it and there's no resolution for a lot of stuff. I do agree that many of these shows would be better if they were written in the UK style. A lot of US shows now just feel woolly as they meander through the plot.

ianai 6y ago
Netflix hasn’t met the equilibrium the same way yet.
hef19898 6y ago
This way of writing, at least the overall arc, really shows. Ideally, writers know when to stop. The Revenge had such an ending, it was Season 3 if I remember well, before it turned into yet another soap opera. Babylon 5 on the other hand was a great example of having the whole 5 seasons basically written before they started production.
- danaris 6y ago
  Babylon 5 is actually a great example of what happens when you mess with cancellations. During the production of season 4, JMS (the creator) was given to understand that season 5 was unlikely to happen. So he had to cram most of the rest of his plot into that season. Having such a powerful, story-packed season 4 meant it did really well. So they put season 5 back on. But he'd already used up (most of) the story he wanted to tell, because they told him he wasn't getting a season 5. So the season 5 we got ended up being a bit weak and wandering, with only the last few episodes (which were part of what would have been the ending of season 4, if he hadn't found out in time that there would be a season 5) having the same strength and memorability as the season 4 episodes. It also meant (IIRC) that they lost some important actors, like Claudia Christian, for season 5. If Ivanova had been able to stay on to be B5's captain after Sheridan became President, the final season would have been much stronger.
  - hef19898 6y ago
    Thanks for refreshing my memory! Loosing Claudia Christian resembles, for different reasons, loosing Terry Farrel for season 7 of DS9. Which, if you ask me, had quite some impact on Gul Dukats story arch. Whcih wasn't the best in season 7 after he was such a great villain over the whole series before.
  - Izkata 6y ago
    > But he'd already used up (most of) the story he wanted to tell, because they told him he wasn't getting a season 5. So the season 5 we got ended up being a bit weak and wandering, with only the last few episodes (which were part of what would have been the ending of season 4, if he hadn't found out in time that there would be a season 5) having the same strength and memorability as the season 4 episodes. All of season 5 was in the original plan as the side-stories for seasons 4 and 5, not written after the series was renewed. That's mainly why the filmed season 4 was so action-packed - the main plot wasn't really compressed in terms of screen time, instead there were no side plots. Aside from that, the finale, Sleeping in Light, was filmed during season 4, that's why Claudia Christian was in it. They found out about the renewal just barely in time to use some season 5 budget to film The Deconstruction of Falling Stars, which only then became the season 4 finale. I think that was really the only thing not in the original plan.
dukoid 6y ago
Like the Tripods series? :.(

personlurking 6y ago

>In the UK a series is usually only 6 episodes and few shows last more than two or three series Inspector Morse (et al) come to mind as one that lasts longer. So many great British detective shows that go on for decades, with around 20 movie-length episodes per season (aka series).

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mrec 6y ago
> 20 movie-length episodes per season Is that a typo? Inspector Morse had a total of 33 episodes across 7 seasons and 5 specials. Seasons averaged about 4 eps each. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Inspector_Morse_episodes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Inspector_Morse_episod...
- personlurking 6y ago
  I stand corrected. There was a time when I watched several shows like Morse (ie, Lewis, Frost, Foyle, Gently, Lynley, Marple, Midsomer) and I suppose it became a bit of a blur. It was a lot of long episodes, but not a lot of episodes (per season).
caf 6y ago
For "long lasting UK series" I tend to think of The Bill.
- danaris 6y ago
  I'm sorry; for "long lasting UK series" it's really hard to beat Doctor Who... The Bill may have more episodes, but Doctor Who has been running for 20 years longer.
  - davidgay 6y ago
    > I'm sorry; for "long lasting UK series" it's really hard to beat Doctor Who... The prototypical "long lasting UK series" is actually https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronation_Street https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronation_Street (nearly 60 years, >10000 episodes)

paulcole 6y ago

The American version of the office had 75+ GREAT episodes (seasons 2,3,4, and most of 5) and the British version had 12 (plus the Christmas Special). The existence of the other 125 episodes doesn’t make those 75 any less great. Same with The Simpsons — the 8 year peak of seasons 1-8 means at least we got those episodes. I haven’t watched a new episode in over 20 years but revisit the early episodes often. I like the sandwiches on my favorite restaurant’s menu. Them serving the pasta dish I don’t like doesn’t make the sandwiches worse.

chrisseaton 6y ago
> 75+ GREAT episodes What does 'great' mean when you're assigning it to such a huge number of episodes? Are they truly great or just good?
- paulcole 6y ago
  > GREAT Obviously any assessment of art is going to be subjective. But at the time, those 75 episodes were the either the GREATest thing on television or very close to it. They hold up today and are episodes that are just as GREAT to me on the 20th or 30th viewing as they were on the first.
  - billforsternz 6y ago
    20th or 30th viewing? Wow, I have so many questions. Are there other shows you give similar devotion to?
    - paulcole 6y ago
      I’ve seen every episode of Seinfeld, E.R., X-Files, Gilmore Girls, and a couple other shows 10+ times. Just watch ‘em on repeat lol. Ask me anything.
      - monkeyshelli 6y ago
        I've seen Seinfeld so many times that now a days I just tap on the "random" option in VLC when watching it. X-files I've divided to two, MonsterOfTheWeek and "moves plot forward". Then randomly pick from the two buckets. Don't think there is any "new" series that I've watched over twice, I wonder why that is.

klmadfejno 6y ago

> I think you'll see it's much better to go out on a high rather than drag on endlessly. I don't. This might be true with dramas where the plot is a big component of it, but certainly not for episodic comedies. Yeah, the Simpsons isn't something I care to watch anymore, and the Office's final seasons without Michael Scott weren't as good. But I'd still much rather have more episodes of content I enjoy than less for the sake of "the complete package". It sucks when a show gets cancelled without an end, but while we're here, the American Office had a fine ending and I'm much happier with the many seasons of it over the British one.

abdullahkhalids 6y ago

In Pakistan, TV dramas are usually one season of 10-24 episodes. They are mostly written or sketched in detail by one primary writer, before shooting begins. Stories are fully completed and loose ends tied off by the end of the series.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

CoolGuySteve 6y ago

The Simpsons is actually a pretty good counterexample. The first season is so-so, the show didn’t really hit its stride until seasons 3-8 according to IMDB ratings: https://i.redd.it/p0or3k2rv6dz.jpg https://i.redd.it/p0or3k2rv6dz.jpg If The Simpsons was British, none of the best episodes would have been made.

jacobion 6y ago
> If The Simpsons was British, none of the best episodes would have been made. But neither would any of the 300 worst episodes.
- dlivingston 6y ago
  The decline of The Simpsons from brilliant American sitcom into mindless consumerist drivel happens at around season 9 and is well documented as “Zombie Simpsons”: https://deadhomersociety.com/zombiesimpsons/ https://deadhomersociety.com/zombiesimpsons/

whywhywhywhy 6y ago

Thing is with a lot of American sitcoms is on a long enough timeline they just become soap operas. UK Office is a concise and witty comedy idea expressed in the correct amount of time the idea deserves. If you look at the later seasons of shows like US Office, Parks and Rec and similar shows, what you're watching has more in common with a soap opera than a sitcom. I feel I can almost count the exceptions to this on one hand.

_qulr 6y ago
Agreed. IMO the first few seasons of The Office (US) and Parks & Recreation were the best, and they went downhill over time. Very few shows can sustain quality over time. For sitcoms... maybe Seinfeld?
- whywhywhywhy 6y ago
  Seinfeld is definitely one I'm thinking of, under weaker creative direction that would have easily fallen into the same soap opera trap.
  - _qulr 6y ago
    No hugging, no learning!
- reducesuffering 6y ago
  It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia. 14 seasons strong. “It’s like Seinfeld on crack.”

yardie 6y ago

The Office UK vs the Office US is belies your point. Almost everyone agrees the US version was much better. The US 1st season tried to be like the UK original and was universally panned. That biting, British humour can only carry you so far. Also, the US version didn't carry on endlessly. Steve Carrell left after season 6 and the show lost it's momentum. But regained some of that magic before closing.

mortehu 6y ago
I would agree if it wasn't for duration neglect. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duration_neglect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duration_neglect

GnarfGnarf 6y ago

Do you mean "Seasons" instead of "Series"? A Series consists of one or more Seasons. A Season has episodes.

gowld 6y ago
Words have different meaning in different regions.
DanBC 6y ago
Here's an example of the UK use of the word "series", which would be called a "season" in other places. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_(series_10) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_(series_10) > The tenth series of the British science fiction television programme Doctor Who premiered on 15 April 2017 and concluded on 1 July 2017, and consisted of twelve episodes, after it was announced in July 2015 that BBC Worldwide had invested in a tenth series of the programme in its annual review. The series is led by head writer and executive producer Steven Moffat, alongside executive producer Brian Minchin. It is the third and final series overseen by the two as executive producers, as well as Moffat's sixth and final series as head writer. This series is the tenth to air following the programme's revival in 2005, and is the thirty-sixth season overall.

danjac 6y ago

Then we have Doctor Who, which has been going since 1963 (albeit with a long hiatus - at least on broadcast TV - from 1989 to 2005).

fenk85 6y ago

> That's a very American perspective. In the UK a series is usually only 6 episodes and few shows last more than two or three series. Points at Top Gear, Dr Who, Sky at Night etc which have gone on for decades

koyote 6y ago

I agree; you can really see the writing quality diminish when shows just go on forever. The original 'vision' is completely lost and you can almost hear the discussions between writers as they have to come up with new plot twists to make the story believable for yet another series/season. That's why I thoroughly enjoyed the German show Dark. They planned 3 series/seasons and that's what we got: a well-thought-out show from start to finish with a single vision of how the whole thing will end. That clue in the first episode? Yep, directly related to the ending in season/series 3 and not some, now inconsequential, detail the writers 'forgot about' or changed course over.