4 ms·

Wow, where are the parents? I mean bad parents here and there I expect, but enough to fuel an international industry is a surprise...

sumedh 6y ago
> where are the parents? Sometimes the kids hide the abuse from their parents.
- mcv 6y ago
  And I imagine some parents push their children into these situations because they want their children to "succeed".
helge9210 6y ago
When my daughter came to me in tears and complained coach is yelling at her, I explained this is a good thing. This means coach is looking at her and is trying to correct her mistakes.
- hitekker 6y ago
  > “I fall off the beam and land badly, and I’m hurting. The coach unleashes a torrent of curse words, yelling at me to get up again. I wait too long. ‘Get your butt up there right now or I’ll make you wish you had.’” > “He grabs me by the throat with both hands and lifts me into the air by my neck ... I hear him clearing his throat, followed by the sound of spitting, and feel a thick glob splat into my face.” You should read the article.
  - ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
    Thanks to you, I no longer need to.
  - watwut 6y ago
    Small kids are not as good as verbalizing what happens. Meaning, at the age when this all starts, they will not put it into words like this. There is also strong cultural assumption that if coach is tough it is good. When kids are complaining, typically unable to explain exactly what the issue is, they are talked about as spoiled by helicopter parents or oversensitive moms. So, even parents who eventually take their own kids away dont treat the whole thing as systematic abuse issue - they talked about it as personal preference of the kid.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > There is also strong cultural assumption that if coach is tough it is good. There is some of that, but more a factor is that the measure of "good" is competitive success, and by that measure lots of tough -- even outright abusive -- coaches are good. You have to face that head-on to deal with the problem, that its not just a mistaken assumption of quality but often a flawed (because it does not view clear and visible verbal/emotional/physical abuse short of [but which can easily be a surface behind which hides] sexual abuse as a problem so long as success is achieved) but objective standard of quality.
      - watwut 6y ago
        It is really just not only that. Though is seen a good among some people even if results are not superior. You can't be widely incompetent, but beyond that there is a lot of subjectivity. The actual competitive level will hurt either way, but the abuse itself is not actually raising performance. If you look at Larry Nassar scandal, he did not had superior measurable results. He just created aura of superiority around him. Altrought he was not framing himself as tough, he pretended to be gentle doctor.
- colanderman 6y ago
  A coach can correct mistakes without yelling. "He's yelling at me because he cares" is the same internal logic that keeps many women in abusive romantic relationships.
  - helge9210 6y ago
    > A coach can correct mistakes without yelling. Are you a professional coach or just think it would work this way? The athletes we are discussing are already selected as fit for the specific sport. All of them are very tolerant to stress from the training and competition. Unless stress of not doing exercise (correctly) is higher than stress from doing it (correctly) there won't be progress. What for an outsider looks like abuse, for athletes is within tolerable limits.
    - lucozade 6y ago
      Not the parent nor a professional coach but you wrote: "my daughter came to me in tears and complained coach is yelling at her". That doesn't sound like being selected for stress tolerance. That sounds a lot more like stress tolerance is being mentally beaten into them.
      - helge9210 6y ago
        Selection is for physical capabilities (experienced coaches are actually looking at both parents in addition to child assessment). Stress tolerance is built up gradually as a side effect.
    - Nullabillity 6y ago
      Does it matter? Surely having a reasonable environment is a far higher priority than "being a champion".
  - helge9210 6y ago
    I can give another example. Sometimes kids overwork their heart and coach is supposed to stop the kid to protect their health. Coach can't tell the kid in front of the group "You worked too hard, come stand here and rest", this would make the whole group to feign being overworked. Instead the coach is saying "You're not working hard enough, come here and stand in front of the group as a punishment for being lazy".
- gowld 6y ago
  You are part of the problem of abuse and I pray that you chose finds an adult they can trust.

sumedh 6y ago

> where are the parents? Sometimes the kids hide the abuse from their parents.

mcv 6y ago
And I imagine some parents push their children into these situations because they want their children to "succeed".

helge9210 6y ago

When my daughter came to me in tears and complained coach is yelling at her, I explained this is a good thing. This means coach is looking at her and is trying to correct her mistakes.

hitekker 6y ago
> “I fall off the beam and land badly, and I’m hurting. The coach unleashes a torrent of curse words, yelling at me to get up again. I wait too long. ‘Get your butt up there right now or I’ll make you wish you had.’” > “He grabs me by the throat with both hands and lifts me into the air by my neck ... I hear him clearing his throat, followed by the sound of spitting, and feel a thick glob splat into my face.” You should read the article.
- ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
  Thanks to you, I no longer need to.
- watwut 6y ago
  Small kids are not as good as verbalizing what happens. Meaning, at the age when this all starts, they will not put it into words like this. There is also strong cultural assumption that if coach is tough it is good. When kids are complaining, typically unable to explain exactly what the issue is, they are talked about as spoiled by helicopter parents or oversensitive moms. So, even parents who eventually take their own kids away dont treat the whole thing as systematic abuse issue - they talked about it as personal preference of the kid.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > There is also strong cultural assumption that if coach is tough it is good. There is some of that, but more a factor is that the measure of "good" is competitive success, and by that measure lots of tough -- even outright abusive -- coaches are good. You have to face that head-on to deal with the problem, that its not just a mistaken assumption of quality but often a flawed (because it does not view clear and visible verbal/emotional/physical abuse short of [but which can easily be a surface behind which hides] sexual abuse as a problem so long as success is achieved) but objective standard of quality.
    - watwut 6y ago
      It is really just not only that. Though is seen a good among some people even if results are not superior. You can't be widely incompetent, but beyond that there is a lot of subjectivity. The actual competitive level will hurt either way, but the abuse itself is not actually raising performance. If you look at Larry Nassar scandal, he did not had superior measurable results. He just created aura of superiority around him. Altrought he was not framing himself as tough, he pretended to be gentle doctor.
colanderman 6y ago
A coach can correct mistakes without yelling. "He's yelling at me because he cares" is the same internal logic that keeps many women in abusive romantic relationships.
- helge9210 6y ago
  > A coach can correct mistakes without yelling. Are you a professional coach or just think it would work this way? The athletes we are discussing are already selected as fit for the specific sport. All of them are very tolerant to stress from the training and competition. Unless stress of not doing exercise (correctly) is higher than stress from doing it (correctly) there won't be progress. What for an outsider looks like abuse, for athletes is within tolerable limits.
  - lucozade 6y ago
    Not the parent nor a professional coach but you wrote: "my daughter came to me in tears and complained coach is yelling at her". That doesn't sound like being selected for stress tolerance. That sounds a lot more like stress tolerance is being mentally beaten into them.
    - helge9210 6y ago
      Selection is for physical capabilities (experienced coaches are actually looking at both parents in addition to child assessment). Stress tolerance is built up gradually as a side effect.
  - Nullabillity 6y ago
    Does it matter? Surely having a reasonable environment is a far higher priority than "being a champion".
- helge9210 6y ago
  I can give another example. Sometimes kids overwork their heart and coach is supposed to stop the kid to protect their health. Coach can't tell the kid in front of the group "You worked too hard, come stand here and rest", this would make the whole group to feign being overworked. Instead the coach is saying "You're not working hard enough, come here and stand in front of the group as a punishment for being lazy".
gowld 6y ago
You are part of the problem of abuse and I pray that you chose finds an adult they can trust.