11 ms·

For me it is the use of "they" as a singular pronoun. I learned to read and write in the 1970s and 1980s and misusing "they" in a singular context would result

For me it is the use of "they" as a singular pronoun. I learned to read and write in the 1970s and 1980s and misusing "they" in a singular context would result in a red mark on one's paper and a lower grade. Any time I read a sentence that uses "they" as a singular it's a small mental roadblock. It's like stumbling on a displaced brick in a sidewalk. If I read "a good programmer will work to understand the problem they are trying to solve" I will mentally trip over that and be distracted from the point being made. If I don't know whether my subject is a male or a female person, I will use "he" as the singular. "A good programmer will work to understand the problem he is trying to solve." I learned that "he" refers to a male or is neutral, but don't mind when writers use "she" as long as they are consistent about it. In a paragraph about the habits of a good programmer, flipping from "he" to "she" every other sentence is also distracting. Also OK if the writer avoids the issue: "Good programmers will work to understand the problems they are trying to solve." Yes I realize that the usage of "they" has evolved, as language does, but for me it's hard-coded in ROM at this point.

professoretc 6y ago
"They" has been used as a singular gender neutral pronoun since at least the 14th century. The modern prohibition against it is just that, modern.
- dllthomas 6y ago
  At the same time, we're not trying to communicate with any 15th century readers. If it's in fact prevalent that a large number of readers have trouble with a construction, it doesn't really matter how recently that trouble arose, does it?
  - Freak_NL 6y ago
    They'll get used to it. Cheer up! English has it easy in this respect — although I'll readily grant that it is even easier in elliptical languages that usually omit gender specific references altogether, like Japanese. In Dutch it will be an uphill battle to get a singular 'hen/hun' accepted.
    - srtjstjsj 6y ago
      In English both hen and hun are feminine.
    - dllthomas 6y ago
      Oh, to be clear, I have no personal objection (philosophical or comprehensive) to singular they and use it regularly without thinking. I just felt like the point that was addressed wasn't the most important point that was made.
- zikzak 6y ago
  Agreed. I made the switch many years ago. It's easy enough. I learned to read in the mid-70's (like that really matters).
dragonwriter 6y ago
> Yes I realize that the usage of "they" has evolved, as language does Gender-neutral semantically-singular “they” has always been widely used in English (including by highly regarded professional writers, as well as in common speech and writing), though it experienced a period of disfavor in academic circles starting from the period for the Victorian prescriptivists and just starting to fade recently.
DropkickM16 6y ago
You are seriously begging the question here.
spuz 6y ago
I don't agree with your belief that using "they" as a singular pronoun is wrong but I won't argue with that - each to their own. However, I wonder what pronoun do you use when you want to refer to a single person whose gender you know but don't want to reveal. Occasionally this is done in storytelling so as not to give away the identity of a character. Or more commonly, I use the word "they" when talking about someone I know to someone else whose gender is irrelevant. For example, I might say to my dad that I will be going out with a friend who happens to be a girl but I'll use "they" because I don't want to have to deal with the inevitable reaction from him that I'm seeing a new girlfriend. I realise that without the word "they", I would have other options but I wonder if you take this particular usage into account when you talk about defaulting to "he" or "she"?
nicoburns 6y ago
> I learned that "he" refers to a male or is neutral, but don't mind when writers use "she" as long as they are consistent about it. This advice seems pretty questionable to me. It seems evident that neither 'he' nor 'she' are actually neutral. Even if one accepts that they can be used with that intent, they still colour ones perception of the person in the minds eye. I'd be interested to know which pronouns you use in speech when the gender of the target is unknown. For example in the following cases: - A baby whose gender you don't know - A pet whose gender you don't know - Someone who has been referred to in conversation (perhaps someone talking about "my friend") whose gender you don't know.

professoretc 6y ago

"They" has been used as a singular gender neutral pronoun since at least the 14th century. The modern prohibition against it is just that, modern.

dllthomas 6y ago
At the same time, we're not trying to communicate with any 15th century readers. If it's in fact prevalent that a large number of readers have trouble with a construction, it doesn't really matter how recently that trouble arose, does it?
- Freak_NL 6y ago
  They'll get used to it. Cheer up! English has it easy in this respect — although I'll readily grant that it is even easier in elliptical languages that usually omit gender specific references altogether, like Japanese. In Dutch it will be an uphill battle to get a singular 'hen/hun' accepted.
  - srtjstjsj 6y ago
    In English both hen and hun are feminine.
  - dllthomas 6y ago
    Oh, to be clear, I have no personal objection (philosophical or comprehensive) to singular they and use it regularly without thinking. I just felt like the point that was addressed wasn't the most important point that was made.
zikzak 6y ago
Agreed. I made the switch many years ago. It's easy enough. I learned to read in the mid-70's (like that really matters).

dragonwriter 6y ago

> Yes I realize that the usage of "they" has evolved, as language does Gender-neutral semantically-singular “they” has always been widely used in English (including by highly regarded professional writers, as well as in common speech and writing), though it experienced a period of disfavor in academic circles starting from the period for the Victorian prescriptivists and just starting to fade recently.

DropkickM16 6y ago

You are seriously begging the question here.

spuz 6y ago

I don't agree with your belief that using "they" as a singular pronoun is wrong but I won't argue with that - each to their own. However, I wonder what pronoun do you use when you want to refer to a single person whose gender you know but don't want to reveal. Occasionally this is done in storytelling so as not to give away the identity of a character. Or more commonly, I use the word "they" when talking about someone I know to someone else whose gender is irrelevant. For example, I might say to my dad that I will be going out with a friend who happens to be a girl but I'll use "they" because I don't want to have to deal with the inevitable reaction from him that I'm seeing a new girlfriend. I realise that without the word "they", I would have other options but I wonder if you take this particular usage into account when you talk about defaulting to "he" or "she"?

nicoburns 6y ago

> I learned that "he" refers to a male or is neutral, but don't mind when writers use "she" as long as they are consistent about it. This advice seems pretty questionable to me. It seems evident that neither 'he' nor 'she' are actually neutral. Even if one accepts that they can be used with that intent, they still colour ones perception of the person in the minds eye. I'd be interested to know which pronouns you use in speech when the gender of the target is unknown. For example in the following cases: - A baby whose gender you don't know - A pet whose gender you don't know - Someone who has been referred to in conversation (perhaps someone talking about "my friend") whose gender you don't know.