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> Put this way: a device that requires proprietary firmware loaded by an open driver from /lib/firmware is, by any reasonable metric, strictly more free than a

> Put this way: a device that requires proprietary firmware loaded by an open driver from /lib/firmware is, by any reasonable metric, strictly more free than a device with the same firmware burned into ROM I would disagree. AFAIK you do not need to agree to a separate licence in order to use firmware embedded in hardware, your right to use it is implied from legal ownership of the item. But if the firmware is distributed independently (like as a part of a Linux distribution), then there are legal complications. The firmware licence must allow redistribution - some do not and then OS contains just script to download it from vendor webpage, which is super awkward, has privacy issues and may force you to accept some vendor conditions. Even if it allows redistribution, it may have some conditions that precludes it from being part of Linux distribution for practical reasons (e.g. advertising clause). And it forces the third party to accept such non-free licence in order to have the right to redistribute it (as a part of Linux distribution). So it creates plenty of logistical and legal issues for users and third parties just to spare some cents on flash. Note that having embedded flash with firmware does not preclude having ability to load newer firmware from /lib/firmware during boot.

marcan_42 6y ago
You're assuming firmware licenses are problematic. Tons of devices have freely redistributable firmware - see the entirety of the linux-firmware repo. The FSF balks at any firmware blobs, redistributable or not. Their argument isn't "some proprietary firmware licenses are problematic for end users", it is "all nonfree software is evil and gives you cooties if you touch it with your filesystem". I could release some firmware with a license so permissive it allows reverse engineering, and they still wouldn't allow it. I don't remember the last time I saw one of those firmware download scripts. Vendors aren't dumb, they know they need to allow firmware redistribution and the vast majority allow it without a problematic license. Having embedded flash with firmware while being able to load newer firmware from /lib/firmware is not a sensible design, as it requires duplicating ROM and RAM. There are three kinds of common devices: * Those which load firmware from an embedded ROM, which is immutable (except perhaps minor RAM patches) * Those with embedded flash that can be updated. These wouldn't load firmware from /lib/firmware, they'd instead be updated by a vendor tool that you run just once. * Those with a firmware RAM that requires firmware upload on startup. These would use /lib/firmware. Combinations exist, e.g. chips which can boot from RAM or optional external Flash, but that makes the version of the device with external Flash strictly more free expensive and unnecessary if firmware could just be loaded from the host.

marcan_42 6y ago

You're assuming firmware licenses are problematic. Tons of devices have freely redistributable firmware - see the entirety of the linux-firmware repo. The FSF balks at any firmware blobs, redistributable or not. Their argument isn't "some proprietary firmware licenses are problematic for end users", it is "all nonfree software is evil and gives you cooties if you touch it with your filesystem". I could release some firmware with a license so permissive it allows reverse engineering, and they still wouldn't allow it. I don't remember the last time I saw one of those firmware download scripts. Vendors aren't dumb, they know they need to allow firmware redistribution and the vast majority allow it without a problematic license. Having embedded flash with firmware while being able to load newer firmware from /lib/firmware is not a sensible design, as it requires duplicating ROM and RAM. There are three kinds of common devices: * Those which load firmware from an embedded ROM, which is immutable (except perhaps minor RAM patches) * Those with embedded flash that can be updated. These wouldn't load firmware from /lib/firmware, they'd instead be updated by a vendor tool that you run just once. * Those with a firmware RAM that requires firmware upload on startup. These would use /lib/firmware. Combinations exist, e.g. chips which can boot from RAM or optional external Flash, but that makes the version of the device with external Flash strictly more free expensive and unnecessary if firmware could just be loaded from the host.