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Is 5G rollout in the US really comprehensive enough at this point to deliver on any of the promises they're making about it at this event? [Edit: found this be

Is 5G rollout in the US really comprehensive enough at this point to deliver on any of the promises they're making about it at this event? [Edit: found this benchmark from a month ago: https://www.tomsguide.com/features/5g-vs-4g https://www.tomsguide.com/features/5g-vs-4g] basically looks like Verizon delivers on the promised speeds, but it still isn't clear to me what the spatial distribution of the higher speeds looks like.

sushicalculus 6y ago
I have an iPhone11. My phone says it connects to 5G already, so I’m actually confused by this launch. Why would iOS tell me I’m connected to 5G? I’ll be honest that I’m unfamiliar with this space
- tenebrisalietum 6y ago
  Telecom companies renamed some 4G networks 5G because they technically fall within the standard.
  - freehunter 6y ago
    Which is silly because even most 4G networks (LTE) don’t technically fall within the original standard of 4G. ITU actually lowered the standard of 4G to meet the limitations of LTE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTE_(telecommunication) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTE_(telecommunication)).
- coder543 6y ago
  5Ge is a marketing term AT&T invented as a rebrand of 4G LTE. It isn't 5G, but it's probably faster than real 5G for now. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/09/atts-current-5g-is-slower-than-4g-in-nearly-every-city-tested-by-pcmag/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/09/atts-...
  - soylentcola 6y ago
    I got stuck trying to explain (without being the annoying "well, actually" guy) why my SO's phone wasn't screwed up when switching from ATT to a different carrier. Because on the old SIM it said 5G dammit! Now it only says 4G so how is that not slower??
  - Nextgrid 6y ago
    Apple deserves to be shamed for this one, as they implemented a feature that essentially allows carriers to lie and display whatever network technology icon they want, instead of displaying the true status as reported by the network interface.
    - huslage 6y ago
      This is a part of the standard, nothing really Apple can do about it.
      - Nextgrid 6y ago
        Source? It's the first time I hear that carriers are able to override the network technology/protocol logo. As far as I know the whole "carrier profile" thing (which is what allows carriers to do this, among other things like arbitrarily restrict tethering, etc) is Apple-specific.
        dragonwriter 6y ago
        No the same capacities exist,though perhaps not under the same name, on Android; my S10+ dutifully switched from reporting 4G LTE to 5Ge when AT&T decided on that lie.
        Nextgrid 6y ago
        Android manufacturers are even worse when it comes to this as they let carriers customize the firmware completely (which then interferes with updates) and should also be shamed. This doesn't however say that this is some kind of standard; it's just OS manufacturers being in bed with carriers and doing them favors.
- Spooky23 6y ago
  AT&T defines LTE with better back haul as “5G”. It’s BS.
tootie 6y ago
No. But they probably sell enough iPhones to rich people in big cities that it's justified.
coder543 6y ago
No. This article also discusses Verizon, not just AT&T: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/09/atts-current-5g-is-slower-than-4g-in-nearly-every-city-tested-by-pcmag/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/09/atts-...
paul7986 6y ago
5G phone with no 5G to use and the carriers have been working on 5G for the past 3 to 5 years? Verizon just announced they are expanding today their 5g in three US cities... yet in reality there isn't much 5G now in those cities they mentioned. Pointless marketing by all!
- vosper 6y ago
  It’s a bit of a chicken and egg situation, isn’t it? By getting the chipsets out in the phone they’re at least solving the chicken part. Plus, iPhones are usually supported for a good 5 years, so this is a bit of future proofing for people who buy today.
- macintux 6y ago
  I think the 3 cities are the 5g mmWave technology; Verizon’s general 5g coverage is much broader than that.
jimmar 6y ago
I live in a midwest city with a population around 25,000. We won't see 5G for a long, long time. We need signal that goes farther, not faster. 4G is still being rolled out to more rural areas. 5G is a feature I'd rather not pay for.
- ryneandal 6y ago
  200k city here, don't see it happening any time soon.
  - tpmx 6y ago
    They say here (from within the past 15 mins): https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/10/13/2107851/0/en/Fastest-5G-Network-in-the-World-just-got-bigger-and-better.html https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/10/13/210785... > Verizon 5G Nationwide service is available today to more than 200 million people in 1,800 cities around the US. I'm sure there's some trickery going on here, though?
    - protomyth 6y ago
      available in 1,800 cities doesn't mean coverage in 1,800 cities - a lot of venue coverage is being counted
    - stevehawk 6y ago
      There's a lot going on there like "5G service in city X!" where they really mean "we have an antenna mounted at the ballpark to cover a high density use case."
      - tpmx 6y ago
        Sure. But at this point even just one 5G base station each for 1.8k cities/towns is a pretty decent step up.
    - mratmeyer 6y ago
      There's really 3 types of 5G: ultra-wideband, mid-band, and low-band. Ultra-wideband is the 5G you hear about most, with gigabit speeds but you have to be within direct line of sight to the cell site. There's also mid-band and low-band, which have similar ranges to LTE and can deliver a few hundred megabits instead of gigabits, and can handle problems like congestion better.
foobarian 6y ago
Are the speeds really that important or are they already good enough? Any time I try to do something substantial over cellular I wish for either better coverage or lower latencies (oh, the latencies... even with great signal strength)
- ghaff 6y ago
  It depends on whether the higher speeds let you use mobile in conditions where WiFi/broadband is flaky or unavailable. But, I agree in general that is a bigger problem in more rural areas and that's where mobile range is more important as well.
- Rebelgecko 6y ago
  on TMO, 5G speeds are basically the same as 4G but I've that the 5G is actually a bit more pervasive
secretsatan 6y ago
Here in Switzerland, the rollout got delayed by the conspiracy theorists
- marc3842h 6y ago
  Mobile providers still upgraded their existing antennas. With my Note20 Ultra 5G on Sunrise, half of the time I am outdoors I get 5G (in Aargau) with speeds between 400mbps-600mbps.

sushicalculus 6y ago

I have an iPhone11. My phone says it connects to 5G already, so I’m actually confused by this launch. Why would iOS tell me I’m connected to 5G? I’ll be honest that I’m unfamiliar with this space

tenebrisalietum 6y ago
Telecom companies renamed some 4G networks 5G because they technically fall within the standard.
- freehunter 6y ago
  Which is silly because even most 4G networks (LTE) don’t technically fall within the original standard of 4G. ITU actually lowered the standard of 4G to meet the limitations of LTE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTE_(telecommunication) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTE_(telecommunication)).
coder543 6y ago
5Ge is a marketing term AT&T invented as a rebrand of 4G LTE. It isn't 5G, but it's probably faster than real 5G for now. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/09/atts-current-5g-is-slower-than-4g-in-nearly-every-city-tested-by-pcmag/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/09/atts-...
- soylentcola 6y ago
  I got stuck trying to explain (without being the annoying "well, actually" guy) why my SO's phone wasn't screwed up when switching from ATT to a different carrier. Because on the old SIM it said 5G dammit! Now it only says 4G so how is that not slower??
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  Apple deserves to be shamed for this one, as they implemented a feature that essentially allows carriers to lie and display whatever network technology icon they want, instead of displaying the true status as reported by the network interface.
  - huslage 6y ago
    This is a part of the standard, nothing really Apple can do about it.
    - Nextgrid 6y ago
      Source? It's the first time I hear that carriers are able to override the network technology/protocol logo. As far as I know the whole "carrier profile" thing (which is what allows carriers to do this, among other things like arbitrarily restrict tethering, etc) is Apple-specific.
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        No the same capacities exist,though perhaps not under the same name, on Android; my S10+ dutifully switched from reporting 4G LTE to 5Ge when AT&T decided on that lie.
        Nextgrid 6y ago
        Android manufacturers are even worse when it comes to this as they let carriers customize the firmware completely (which then interferes with updates) and should also be shamed. This doesn't however say that this is some kind of standard; it's just OS manufacturers being in bed with carriers and doing them favors.
Spooky23 6y ago
AT&T defines LTE with better back haul as “5G”. It’s BS.

tootie 6y ago

No. But they probably sell enough iPhones to rich people in big cities that it's justified.

coder543 6y ago

No. This article also discusses Verizon, not just AT&T: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/09/atts-current-5g-is-slower-than-4g-in-nearly-every-city-tested-by-pcmag/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/09/atts-...

paul7986 6y ago

5G phone with no 5G to use and the carriers have been working on 5G for the past 3 to 5 years? Verizon just announced they are expanding today their 5g in three US cities... yet in reality there isn't much 5G now in those cities they mentioned. Pointless marketing by all!

vosper 6y ago
It’s a bit of a chicken and egg situation, isn’t it? By getting the chipsets out in the phone they’re at least solving the chicken part. Plus, iPhones are usually supported for a good 5 years, so this is a bit of future proofing for people who buy today.
macintux 6y ago
I think the 3 cities are the 5g mmWave technology; Verizon’s general 5g coverage is much broader than that.

jimmar 6y ago

I live in a midwest city with a population around 25,000. We won't see 5G for a long, long time. We need signal that goes farther, not faster. 4G is still being rolled out to more rural areas. 5G is a feature I'd rather not pay for.

ryneandal 6y ago
200k city here, don't see it happening any time soon.
- tpmx 6y ago
  They say here (from within the past 15 mins): https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/10/13/2107851/0/en/Fastest-5G-Network-in-the-World-just-got-bigger-and-better.html https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/10/13/210785... > Verizon 5G Nationwide service is available today to more than 200 million people in 1,800 cities around the US. I'm sure there's some trickery going on here, though?
  - protomyth 6y ago
    available in 1,800 cities doesn't mean coverage in 1,800 cities - a lot of venue coverage is being counted
  - stevehawk 6y ago
    There's a lot going on there like "5G service in city X!" where they really mean "we have an antenna mounted at the ballpark to cover a high density use case."
    - tpmx 6y ago
      Sure. But at this point even just one 5G base station each for 1.8k cities/towns is a pretty decent step up.
  - mratmeyer 6y ago
    There's really 3 types of 5G: ultra-wideband, mid-band, and low-band. Ultra-wideband is the 5G you hear about most, with gigabit speeds but you have to be within direct line of sight to the cell site. There's also mid-band and low-band, which have similar ranges to LTE and can deliver a few hundred megabits instead of gigabits, and can handle problems like congestion better.

foobarian 6y ago

Are the speeds really that important or are they already good enough? Any time I try to do something substantial over cellular I wish for either better coverage or lower latencies (oh, the latencies... even with great signal strength)

ghaff 6y ago
It depends on whether the higher speeds let you use mobile in conditions where WiFi/broadband is flaky or unavailable. But, I agree in general that is a bigger problem in more rural areas and that's where mobile range is more important as well.
Rebelgecko 6y ago
on TMO, 5G speeds are basically the same as 4G but I've that the 5G is actually a bit more pervasive

secretsatan 6y ago

Here in Switzerland, the rollout got delayed by the conspiracy theorists

marc3842h 6y ago
Mobile providers still upgraded their existing antennas. With my Note20 Ultra 5G on Sunrise, half of the time I am outdoors I get 5G (in Aargau) with speeds between 400mbps-600mbps.