5 ms·

This just further proves the dumpster fire point made by others here. C++ is a kitchen sink language. It just has gradually become every and any paradigm. It no

This just further proves the dumpster fire point made by others here. C++ is a kitchen sink language. It just has gradually become every and any paradigm. It no longer has any true identity, and I can't imagine that any new dev coming into the language has much of a shot of being successful. I do wonder how they are able to pull it off. It is truly remarkable in some way that they are able to have so many language features without it being detrimental to the language.

pjmlp 6y ago
Same applies to any other programming language of the same age. Or do you think that Fortran 2018, C17, C# 9, Java 15, Python 3.9, COBOL 2014, Ada 2014,... are any different?
- dimitrios1 6y ago
  I look up to literally zero of those languages.
jcelerier 6y ago
> It just has gradually become every and any paradigm But that's the whole point. https://www.stroustrup.com/bs_faq.html#multiparadigm https://www.stroustrup.com/bs_faq.html#multiparadigm You may prefer using 20 different languages for writing your app, I'd much rather write 20 EDSL embedded I a single host language.
- dimitrios1 6y ago
  I'd much rather operate under the constraints of a single or few paradigms to perform certain tasks, and another for other tasks, rather than have an endless sea of options. Turns out science agrees with me here in which one is better for productivity and creativity as well.
  - jcelerier 6y ago
    do you have link to any papers ? my experience is pretty much diametrally opposite (and given that C++ allows guys like https://twitter.com/awesomekling https://twitter.com/awesomekling to code a complete OS from scratch with a GUI shell and a web browser mostly alone in two years... those papers ought to reaaally be convincing as I don't know many other languages which allow that)
    - dimitrios1 6y ago
      https://academic.oup.com/jcr/article-abstract/42/5/767/1855952 https://academic.oup.com/jcr/article-abstract/42/5/767/18559... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21875228/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21875228/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ5rx5lDIoc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ5rx5lDIoc https://www.amazon.com/Creativity-Constraints-Breakthrough-Patricia-Stokes/dp/0826178456 https://www.amazon.com/Creativity-Constraints-Breakthrough-P... If you google constraints and creativity you will find an endless sea of research.
      - jcelerier 6y ago
        having read a ton of papers coming from that field during my phd, I have yet to see anything actually convincing out of it and not something that could be due to different cultural norms or other factors. Also assuming that it applies to the general practice of programming (whatever that means, I really don't think there's a single one) is... bold imho. Otoh most useful large software is written in C++ - adobe software like Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere, After Effects, most big music making software (Ableton, Cubase, etc), most big video software (DaVinci Resolve, etc) and they definitely don't seem to be lacking in the "creativity" department. If your hypothesis was true, wouldn't we be seeing a lot of much more advanced software written in different languages ? Yet there are barely any - in audio there's Fruity Loops written in Delphi but other than that...

pjmlp 6y ago

Same applies to any other programming language of the same age. Or do you think that Fortran 2018, C17, C# 9, Java 15, Python 3.9, COBOL 2014, Ada 2014,... are any different?

dimitrios1 6y ago
I look up to literally zero of those languages.

jcelerier 6y ago

> It just has gradually become every and any paradigm But that's the whole point. https://www.stroustrup.com/bs_faq.html#multiparadigm https://www.stroustrup.com/bs_faq.html#multiparadigm You may prefer using 20 different languages for writing your app, I'd much rather write 20 EDSL embedded I a single host language.

dimitrios1 6y ago
I'd much rather operate under the constraints of a single or few paradigms to perform certain tasks, and another for other tasks, rather than have an endless sea of options. Turns out science agrees with me here in which one is better for productivity and creativity as well.
- jcelerier 6y ago
  do you have link to any papers ? my experience is pretty much diametrally opposite (and given that C++ allows guys like https://twitter.com/awesomekling https://twitter.com/awesomekling to code a complete OS from scratch with a GUI shell and a web browser mostly alone in two years... those papers ought to reaaally be convincing as I don't know many other languages which allow that)
  - dimitrios1 6y ago
    https://academic.oup.com/jcr/article-abstract/42/5/767/1855952 https://academic.oup.com/jcr/article-abstract/42/5/767/18559... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21875228/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21875228/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ5rx5lDIoc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ5rx5lDIoc https://www.amazon.com/Creativity-Constraints-Breakthrough-Patricia-Stokes/dp/0826178456 https://www.amazon.com/Creativity-Constraints-Breakthrough-P... If you google constraints and creativity you will find an endless sea of research.
    - jcelerier 6y ago
      having read a ton of papers coming from that field during my phd, I have yet to see anything actually convincing out of it and not something that could be due to different cultural norms or other factors. Also assuming that it applies to the general practice of programming (whatever that means, I really don't think there's a single one) is... bold imho. Otoh most useful large software is written in C++ - adobe software like Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere, After Effects, most big music making software (Ableton, Cubase, etc), most big video software (DaVinci Resolve, etc) and they definitely don't seem to be lacking in the "creativity" department. If your hypothesis was true, wouldn't we be seeing a lot of much more advanced software written in different languages ? Yet there are barely any - in audio there's Fruity Loops written in Delphi but other than that...