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Good job, as expected by the Plasma team. I really feel like this is a big step in the right direction. A personal wish however would be that we got a more mo

Good job, as expected by the Plasma team. I really feel like this is a big step in the right direction. A personal wish however would be that we got a more modern look to more desktop environments. Both Gnome, Plasma and Pantheon (default in Elementary OS) are talked about as the best looking desktop environments, but I'd be lying if I said that any of them looked awesome. There's just something about them that make them feel weird. Sometimes it's just margins and whitespace, sometimes the font scale that seems inconsistent and sometimes it's the default icon packs that look a bit dated. I don't know, I'm not a designer, but it is definitely worse than both win10 and macOS 10.15.6 I think that if we want to grow the unix user base there's a bit of progress to be made in this department. Customisability is where we win today - but the defaults need to get better to attract more non tech oriented people.

brightball 6y ago
PopOS is really impressing me
- numlock86 6y ago
  That's GNOME.
  - brightball 6y ago
    It is, but the adjustments that they are making to it especially with the PopOS Shell to build in tiling window management on top of gnome has dramatically improved the experience (for me at least).
xyquadrat 6y ago
I fully understand that opinion - it is a big pain point for many users. Inside KDE, our VDG (Visual Design Group) is working on ironing out those inconsistencies and visual problems. It's a gigantic task, but I do believe we are making progress - especially System Settings has been getting a lot better lately. They are also working on a evolutionary update to our default 'Breeze' design theme. Check it out at https://phabricator.kde.org/T10891 https://phabricator.kde.org/T10891. (And if you do find specific problems e.g. regarding margins or fonts, please report them on bugs.kde.org, and we'll take a look.)
MegaDeKay 6y ago
Nate Graham blogs about these types of consistency improvements every week. Lots of screenshots to show what has improved and what features are coming. Well worth a read. I think this shows the progress you are hoping to see. https://pointieststick.com/ https://pointieststick.com/
- O_H_E 6y ago
  These posts are indeed great.
jhanschoo 6y ago
Default GNOME theming has been quite atrocious (to me), but I've been using Arc-Dark with Papirus icons and Noto Sans fonts (usually already packaged in Debian-based distributions). I couldn't be more satisfied, and they play well with Nord (from Arctic Ice Studio) color themes.
- tupputuppu 6y ago
  One of the most important design principles is consistency. Unfortunately that's an objective which is difficult for open source to fulfill. It would be great if the desktop environments themselves took the task of providing a couple of unified themes out of the box, where the colors, icons, fonts and everything else fit together.
devthrowawy 6y ago
Why do you want to attract uninterested users who's interested are primarily superficial and not aligned with the core values and spirit of linux/foss? This is how you breed corruption.
- cupofjoakim 6y ago
  I think you and me see different values in linux as a platform. What I want is for linux to be a true alternative to windows or macOS for all users - not only the tech-savy. The goal should be for someone like my mom or my wife to be handed a linux based machine and for her to not see it as a scary thing, but as a viable daily driver. I'd argue that your comment is somewhat elitist - what does it even mean to say that someones interest are "primarily superficial and not aligned with the core values and spirit of linux/foss"? Plenty of linux users already care about how their interface looks, that does not mean that they don't care about open source.
  - devthrowawy 6y ago
    I'm not meaning to be elites in the sense that i'm trying to look down on certain linux users. But if someone is going to use linux or not use it at all based just on how it looks then they don't need linux and can use a regular desktop os just fine. Linux is important because of how it is used technically to build software systems and that it is open source. If you start bringing on users that don't have that interest then then it is just another web/chrome platform waiting to be commercialized and have it's true purpose undermined. Take Canonical to the extreme. Not everything needs to try to grab the attention of random person off the street.
    - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
      That sounds like a personal goal? I'm not sure I see any necessary reason that linux exist solely in either category (open-source true purpose, or popular desktop). Did I miss the argument?
      - 6y ago

brightball 6y ago

PopOS is really impressing me

numlock86 6y ago
That's GNOME.
- brightball 6y ago
  It is, but the adjustments that they are making to it especially with the PopOS Shell to build in tiling window management on top of gnome has dramatically improved the experience (for me at least).

xyquadrat 6y ago

I fully understand that opinion - it is a big pain point for many users. Inside KDE, our VDG (Visual Design Group) is working on ironing out those inconsistencies and visual problems. It's a gigantic task, but I do believe we are making progress - especially System Settings has been getting a lot better lately. They are also working on a evolutionary update to our default 'Breeze' design theme. Check it out at https://phabricator.kde.org/T10891 https://phabricator.kde.org/T10891. (And if you do find specific problems e.g. regarding margins or fonts, please report them on bugs.kde.org, and we'll take a look.)

MegaDeKay 6y ago

Nate Graham blogs about these types of consistency improvements every week. Lots of screenshots to show what has improved and what features are coming. Well worth a read. I think this shows the progress you are hoping to see. https://pointieststick.com/ https://pointieststick.com/

O_H_E 6y ago
These posts are indeed great.

jhanschoo 6y ago

Default GNOME theming has been quite atrocious (to me), but I've been using Arc-Dark with Papirus icons and Noto Sans fonts (usually already packaged in Debian-based distributions). I couldn't be more satisfied, and they play well with Nord (from Arctic Ice Studio) color themes.

tupputuppu 6y ago
One of the most important design principles is consistency. Unfortunately that's an objective which is difficult for open source to fulfill. It would be great if the desktop environments themselves took the task of providing a couple of unified themes out of the box, where the colors, icons, fonts and everything else fit together.

devthrowawy 6y ago

Why do you want to attract uninterested users who's interested are primarily superficial and not aligned with the core values and spirit of linux/foss? This is how you breed corruption.

cupofjoakim 6y ago
I think you and me see different values in linux as a platform. What I want is for linux to be a true alternative to windows or macOS for all users - not only the tech-savy. The goal should be for someone like my mom or my wife to be handed a linux based machine and for her to not see it as a scary thing, but as a viable daily driver. I'd argue that your comment is somewhat elitist - what does it even mean to say that someones interest are "primarily superficial and not aligned with the core values and spirit of linux/foss"? Plenty of linux users already care about how their interface looks, that does not mean that they don't care about open source.
- devthrowawy 6y ago
  I'm not meaning to be elites in the sense that i'm trying to look down on certain linux users. But if someone is going to use linux or not use it at all based just on how it looks then they don't need linux and can use a regular desktop os just fine. Linux is important because of how it is used technically to build software systems and that it is open source. If you start bringing on users that don't have that interest then then it is just another web/chrome platform waiting to be commercialized and have it's true purpose undermined. Take Canonical to the extreme. Not everything needs to try to grab the attention of random person off the street.
  - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
    That sounds like a personal goal? I'm not sure I see any necessary reason that linux exist solely in either category (open-source true purpose, or popular desktop). Did I miss the argument?
    - 6y ago