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> Aggregators seek to serve the maximum number of consumers. Integrators seek to monetize consumers to the maximum extent. I think this hits the point on the h

> Aggregators seek to serve the maximum number of consumers. Integrators seek to monetize consumers to the maximum extent. I think this hits the point on the head here. The most recent example of this is Disney setting the rental price for their new Mulan film at $30. Keep in mind, that's $30 _on top_ of whatever you're paying for your Disney Plus subscription. Quality issues with that film aside, the fact that Disney was able to charge _so much_ above the market norm for rentals ($2-$5) forecasts a future where streaming companies slowly increase their prices as bad as the cable television companies of yore.

soylentcola 6y ago
I agree that increased integration and dominance can lead to higher prices (as you mention with cable), but is this a "traditional" rental? I was under the impression that it was intended to make up for the fact that many theaters are closed or people don't want to go out to them. Pricing is more in line with a set of first run movie tickets for an adult and a couple of kids or a pay-per-view event. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if it's also a way to gauge what people are willing to pay for new, high profile Disney material via streaming services and might signal similar high-cost rentals in the future. How much would people pay to watch (for example) the next season of "Mandalorian" a month before it shows up in the normal Disney+ listing?
- judge2020 6y ago
  You're right on the price, but it looks like the $30 didn't fare well for Disney. https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/oct/12/cinemas-shocked-and-dismayed-by-disney-decision-to-launch-soul-on-streaming-pixar https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/oct/12/cinemas-shocked... > However, it appears Disney does not currently have plans to charge extra for Soul, which will be made available on 25 December.
save_ferris 6y ago
Streaming hardware is another perfect example of this dilemma. I recently signed up for HBO Max thinking it would run on my Roku, because why wouldn't it? Turns out that HBO can't have more than one paid service streaming to Roku devices at a time per Roku's TOS, so they're favoring customers that are still running the now-deprecated HBO service. It's insane.
- lozaning 6y ago
  I still dont get how they have HBO MAX and HBO Go. Why is there two and why do they get different stuff? That wolves show is only on Max. :eyeroll:
- unwiredben 6y ago
  HBO Max subscription credentials can be used in the HBO channel on Roku devices, although you don't have access to the Max-exclusive content, just the HBO parts.
dylan604 6y ago
They were able to do this because there were no viable options with Corona keeping the theaters closed. Doubtful people would be willing to pay that rental fee if they could have gone to the theater instead. However, $30 for a mom/dad/2-kids is still way cheaper than going to the theater. For people that hate going to the movies, this could be a new acceptable norm.
- tfigment 6y ago
  Unless of course single people are not a family of 4 and should not have to pay extra because of that.
  - doytch 6y ago
    Hmmm, I spy an opportunity for Amazon to use their home drones to offer discounted prices if there's ever only one person watching.
  - dylan604 6y ago
    Even as a single person, $30 sounds cheap for the movies with the expense of travel to the theater, ticket prices, snacks, etc.
    - MereInterest 6y ago
      Matinee showings tend to be around $6-8. $5 of snacks and per-mile total costs of around $0.40/mile, for a 10-mile round trip, still only bring that up to around $15-17.
      - gowld 6y ago
        Plus an hour of travel/prep time. And matinee is cheap because it's an inconvenient time.
      - Spivak 6y ago
        I like to think I live in a pretty affordable city and that just sounds insane to me. I can find $5 matinees of old movies on slow days but a new release will still cost me $12/ticket and $18/ticket on weekends. As for snacks I looked and the theater is currently running a special for $10 popcorn and a drink combo.
larrik 6y ago
The market norm for streaming new release HD rentals is more like $20, though.
- soneca 6y ago
  Yes, and that for movies that were released in the theaters. For a movie that were supposed to be in thousands of theaters having to release directly in streaming, 50% more than regular price seems ok.
  - tzs 6y ago
    What movies besides "Mulan" that were originally supposed to be in theaters but instead went straight to VOD due to COVID were more than $20?
    - larrik 6y ago
      the new Bill & Ted was $25, I believe
moksly 6y ago
> Disney was able to charge _so much_ above the market norm for rentals Were they though? There is a difference between trying and succeeding, and I haven’t seen any numbers suggesting that people actually rented it. Completely anecdotally we’re quite happy with Disney plus which just opened in Denmark, we even bought the much cheaper year in the preorder, because well, small children. We would never dream of renting Mulan though.
dcolkitt 6y ago
> forecasts a future where streaming companies slowly increase their prices as bad as the cable television companies of yore. Seems like this all has to do with how fungible consumers' preference for media is. If the viewers have to see the newest Disney film or the most recent season of a hit sitcom, then those who own the content can extract their pound of flesh. When a media property is strong enough that consumers demand it by name, it's a monopoly product with monopoly pricing power. But if consumers show even a little flexibility, that puts drastic downward pressure on media prices. "We don't have This is Us... but we do have a very cheap back catalog of Grey's Anatomy that we think you might like just as much..." Now content becomes a commodity, and margins become razor thin. The surplus gets re-allocated and divided between cheaper consumer prices and those who own the algorithm. Netflix became the biggest media company in the world based on the strength of its algorithm not its media property. One reason that cable company prices got out of control is because there was no effective mechanism for content fungibility. Higher prices were driven by ever higher carrier fees. If Comcast gets in a standoff with Bravo, it will always lose. A large segment of consumers demand Bravo, and Comcast had no way to deliver then any sort of satisfactory alternative. So carriers fees marches higher, which then in turn meant that consumer prices marched higher, since the cable companies were a monopoly themselves. In the near-term the specific countours of the landscape and machinations of the business may push prices up or down. But in the long-run, algorithms are only getting better. There's no countervailing force making media branding stronger over time. The end-result has to be that the cost of media content asymptotically approaches its marginal cost: zero. Or more likely content just become a subsidized subsidiary of the tech gatekeepers that own the algorithms.
fxtentacle 6y ago
For most people, renting the film and buying a digital copy are effectively the same thing. Or do you honestly expect that your iTunes "purchases" will still be viewable in 5 years? I don't. And yes, while $30 is expensive in comparison to other companies' rental prices, I remember that many new movies (e.g. Deadpool 2) are at first only available for sale on iTunes and only later do they add rental options. Plus, for movie fanatics - who tend to be main buyers in the first 1-2 weeks, Disney is not competing with online rentals, they are competing with 4K Blu-Ray. So if they can provide an experience that lets me watch a movie at 4K with HDR and a decent bitrate on my offline TV, I'm in at $30. I feel like Tenet is seriously screwing up here. I'd love to see the film and I'm OK with paying $30 for the whole family. But Cinemas are closed, there are no streaming options, and they don't even have a Blu-Ray release date yet. With that in mind, I'm not surprised that some of my friends have opted to watch a low-quality illegal cam recording of it, instead of waiting 5+ months. Warner Brothers could have monetized that impatience, but they screwed up. Let's hope Disney will do better by offering paid legal downloads on day 1, even if it's as expensive as cinema used to be. And if you don't believe that impatient movie fanatics are a market, consider this: https://www.cinemablend.com/new/New-System-Allows-You-To-Stream-First-Run-Movies-In-Your-Home-for-20-000-22106.html https://www.cinemablend.com/new/New-System-Allows-You-To-Str... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3464839/The-35k-Netflix-billionaires-box-shows-films-come-cinema-500-time-rumoured-Kim-Kayne-one-new-home.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3464839/The-...
- auggierose 6y ago
  Well, if they bring out tenet on digital then soon you will be able to download a high-quality copy of it. That's why $30, it subsidises all the illegal downloads.
- wenc 6y ago
  > Or do you honestly expect that your iTunes "purchases" will still be viewable in 5 years? I don't. It's never a continued guarantee, but all the DRM'ed stuff (movies, songs) I bought on the iTunes Music Store in 2009 are still playable today.
- MR4D 6y ago
jm4 6y ago
Disney wasn't the first to do that. A number of new movies have come out at that price point for a very short window this year before becoming available for purchase or rental. I don't think it's accurate to compare these movies to rentals in the $2-5 range. This scheme is clearly designed to replace some of the revenue from a theater run before it goes straight to rental. If you're looking at it that way, it's not such a bad deal for the consumer. We did the Mulan thing and it was half what it would have cost to take the family to the theater. It was a fun evening at our house and we would do it again as an alternative to going to theaters during covid. The only ones getting screwed by this setup are the theaters.
capo64 6y ago
I think that Netflix (as an example, but also most streaming services -- even HBO max at this point) are aggregators though. Disney can afford to charge this premium because their content is so differentiated. For aggregators with commoditized content, it will always be a race to the bottom for pricing to reach maximum users and spread the high fixed cost of content across them. I would look to other content providers rather than other streaming services to anticipate who might follow Disney's pricing model. And even though this was probably just a strategy they took to deal with the circumstances created by COVID, if it works, they may stick with it. I could see theater and early access on Disney+ being released at the same time, and you can choose to go spend $30 at the movie theater or $30 in the comfort of your home.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

soylentcola 6y ago

I agree that increased integration and dominance can lead to higher prices (as you mention with cable), but is this a "traditional" rental? I was under the impression that it was intended to make up for the fact that many theaters are closed or people don't want to go out to them. Pricing is more in line with a set of first run movie tickets for an adult and a couple of kids or a pay-per-view event. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if it's also a way to gauge what people are willing to pay for new, high profile Disney material via streaming services and might signal similar high-cost rentals in the future. How much would people pay to watch (for example) the next season of "Mandalorian" a month before it shows up in the normal Disney+ listing?

judge2020 6y ago
You're right on the price, but it looks like the $30 didn't fare well for Disney. https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/oct/12/cinemas-shocked-and-dismayed-by-disney-decision-to-launch-soul-on-streaming-pixar https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/oct/12/cinemas-shocked... > However, it appears Disney does not currently have plans to charge extra for Soul, which will be made available on 25 December.

save_ferris 6y ago

Streaming hardware is another perfect example of this dilemma. I recently signed up for HBO Max thinking it would run on my Roku, because why wouldn't it? Turns out that HBO can't have more than one paid service streaming to Roku devices at a time per Roku's TOS, so they're favoring customers that are still running the now-deprecated HBO service. It's insane.

lozaning 6y ago
I still dont get how they have HBO MAX and HBO Go. Why is there two and why do they get different stuff? That wolves show is only on Max. :eyeroll:
unwiredben 6y ago
HBO Max subscription credentials can be used in the HBO channel on Roku devices, although you don't have access to the Max-exclusive content, just the HBO parts.

dylan604 6y ago

They were able to do this because there were no viable options with Corona keeping the theaters closed. Doubtful people would be willing to pay that rental fee if they could have gone to the theater instead. However, $30 for a mom/dad/2-kids is still way cheaper than going to the theater. For people that hate going to the movies, this could be a new acceptable norm.

tfigment 6y ago
Unless of course single people are not a family of 4 and should not have to pay extra because of that.
- doytch 6y ago
  Hmmm, I spy an opportunity for Amazon to use their home drones to offer discounted prices if there's ever only one person watching.
- dylan604 6y ago
  Even as a single person, $30 sounds cheap for the movies with the expense of travel to the theater, ticket prices, snacks, etc.
  - MereInterest 6y ago
    Matinee showings tend to be around $6-8. $5 of snacks and per-mile total costs of around $0.40/mile, for a 10-mile round trip, still only bring that up to around $15-17.
    - gowld 6y ago
      Plus an hour of travel/prep time. And matinee is cheap because it's an inconvenient time.
    - Spivak 6y ago
      I like to think I live in a pretty affordable city and that just sounds insane to me. I can find $5 matinees of old movies on slow days but a new release will still cost me $12/ticket and $18/ticket on weekends. As for snacks I looked and the theater is currently running a special for $10 popcorn and a drink combo.

larrik 6y ago

The market norm for streaming new release HD rentals is more like $20, though.

soneca 6y ago
Yes, and that for movies that were released in the theaters. For a movie that were supposed to be in thousands of theaters having to release directly in streaming, 50% more than regular price seems ok.
- tzs 6y ago
  What movies besides "Mulan" that were originally supposed to be in theaters but instead went straight to VOD due to COVID were more than $20?
  - larrik 6y ago
    the new Bill & Ted was $25, I believe

moksly 6y ago

> Disney was able to charge _so much_ above the market norm for rentals Were they though? There is a difference between trying and succeeding, and I haven’t seen any numbers suggesting that people actually rented it. Completely anecdotally we’re quite happy with Disney plus which just opened in Denmark, we even bought the much cheaper year in the preorder, because well, small children. We would never dream of renting Mulan though.

dcolkitt 6y ago

> forecasts a future where streaming companies slowly increase their prices as bad as the cable television companies of yore. Seems like this all has to do with how fungible consumers' preference for media is. If the viewers have to see the newest Disney film or the most recent season of a hit sitcom, then those who own the content can extract their pound of flesh. When a media property is strong enough that consumers demand it by name, it's a monopoly product with monopoly pricing power. But if consumers show even a little flexibility, that puts drastic downward pressure on media prices. "We don't have This is Us... but we do have a very cheap back catalog of Grey's Anatomy that we think you might like just as much..." Now content becomes a commodity, and margins become razor thin. The surplus gets re-allocated and divided between cheaper consumer prices and those who own the algorithm. Netflix became the biggest media company in the world based on the strength of its algorithm not its media property. One reason that cable company prices got out of control is because there was no effective mechanism for content fungibility. Higher prices were driven by ever higher carrier fees. If Comcast gets in a standoff with Bravo, it will always lose. A large segment of consumers demand Bravo, and Comcast had no way to deliver then any sort of satisfactory alternative. So carriers fees marches higher, which then in turn meant that consumer prices marched higher, since the cable companies were a monopoly themselves. In the near-term the specific countours of the landscape and machinations of the business may push prices up or down. But in the long-run, algorithms are only getting better. There's no countervailing force making media branding stronger over time. The end-result has to be that the cost of media content asymptotically approaches its marginal cost: zero. Or more likely content just become a subsidized subsidiary of the tech gatekeepers that own the algorithms.

fxtentacle 6y ago

For most people, renting the film and buying a digital copy are effectively the same thing. Or do you honestly expect that your iTunes "purchases" will still be viewable in 5 years? I don't. And yes, while $30 is expensive in comparison to other companies' rental prices, I remember that many new movies (e.g. Deadpool 2) are at first only available for sale on iTunes and only later do they add rental options. Plus, for movie fanatics - who tend to be main buyers in the first 1-2 weeks, Disney is not competing with online rentals, they are competing with 4K Blu-Ray. So if they can provide an experience that lets me watch a movie at 4K with HDR and a decent bitrate on my offline TV, I'm in at $30. I feel like Tenet is seriously screwing up here. I'd love to see the film and I'm OK with paying $30 for the whole family. But Cinemas are closed, there are no streaming options, and they don't even have a Blu-Ray release date yet. With that in mind, I'm not surprised that some of my friends have opted to watch a low-quality illegal cam recording of it, instead of waiting 5+ months. Warner Brothers could have monetized that impatience, but they screwed up. Let's hope Disney will do better by offering paid legal downloads on day 1, even if it's as expensive as cinema used to be. And if you don't believe that impatient movie fanatics are a market, consider this: https://www.cinemablend.com/new/New-System-Allows-You-To-Stream-First-Run-Movies-In-Your-Home-for-20-000-22106.html https://www.cinemablend.com/new/New-System-Allows-You-To-Str... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3464839/The-35k-Netflix-billionaires-box-shows-films-come-cinema-500-time-rumoured-Kim-Kayne-one-new-home.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3464839/The-...

auggierose 6y ago
Well, if they bring out tenet on digital then soon you will be able to download a high-quality copy of it. That's why $30, it subsidises all the illegal downloads.
wenc 6y ago
> Or do you honestly expect that your iTunes "purchases" will still be viewable in 5 years? I don't. It's never a continued guarantee, but all the DRM'ed stuff (movies, songs) I bought on the iTunes Music Store in 2009 are still playable today.
MR4D 6y ago

jm4 6y ago

Disney wasn't the first to do that. A number of new movies have come out at that price point for a very short window this year before becoming available for purchase or rental. I don't think it's accurate to compare these movies to rentals in the $2-5 range. This scheme is clearly designed to replace some of the revenue from a theater run before it goes straight to rental. If you're looking at it that way, it's not such a bad deal for the consumer. We did the Mulan thing and it was half what it would have cost to take the family to the theater. It was a fun evening at our house and we would do it again as an alternative to going to theaters during covid. The only ones getting screwed by this setup are the theaters.

capo64 6y ago

I think that Netflix (as an example, but also most streaming services -- even HBO max at this point) are aggregators though. Disney can afford to charge this premium because their content is so differentiated. For aggregators with commoditized content, it will always be a race to the bottom for pricing to reach maximum users and spread the high fixed cost of content across them. I would look to other content providers rather than other streaming services to anticipate who might follow Disney's pricing model. And even though this was probably just a strategy they took to deal with the circumstances created by COVID, if it works, they may stick with it. I could see theater and early access on Disney+ being released at the same time, and you can choose to go spend $30 at the movie theater or $30 in the comfort of your home.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]