3 ms·

What sort of services is this author offering? From experience I can say that at the pricepoints being mentioned (a few thousand USD, which is a few days of wor

by roel_v 6y ago

What sort of services is this author offering? From experience I can say that at the pricepoints being mentioned (a few thousand USD, which is a few days of work, if that), you can barely break even on just the amount of effort small towns will expect you spend on writing the proposal (so not even mentioning the actual work!). You'll have to write a project offer, business case, ROI calculations, breakdown of spend, and that's just to be considered, i.e. they'll expect several firms to do this and then they'll pick (the cheapest|the mayor's nephew|the guy the CEO plays golf with). I'm very hesitant too to work with this sort of client, there needs to a real possibility of a substantive follow on (and not a hand-wavy 'yeah this might grow into something bigger') to make it worth while. But maybe I'm thinking of the wrong sort of services, so it would probably be illustrative to have some examples of what were're talking about here.

neltnerb 6y ago
I think you're spot on. I don't work in this area, mine is even easier to write proposals for. I still turn down projects that don't just pay by the hour, and don't involve at least a few hours... I hate writing proposals without getting paid. I hate donating my time in order to do endless negotiating. I hate spending unpaid hours nit picking over contracts. I hate dealing with startup founders who think they deserve to own everything in my head for a project that costs a few thousand dollars. It's too much work for a low likelihood small reward. I wish I could afford to help pro bono, and do when I can, but millennials I guess don't deserve financial security since how else would landlords pay their bills...
DoreenMichele 6y ago
Thank you for commenting. I homeschooled my now adult sons. I know from first-hand experience that a small organization doesn't need the bureaucratic bloat that larger organizations rely upon to manage their sheer size and such bloat is actively harmful and counterproductive below a certain size. I've already got a limited selection of free resources on the site that could be used today by small communities who think what I am doing is of interest to them. I hope to attract Patreon supporters who think this is simply a good idea. I plan to decide for myself what kinds of limited services to offer. I have no plans to play by the current set of "rules." I think they are broken on the face of it, which is why this market is so badly underserved. It's an experiment. It's okay if it fails. I also do resume work for $50/page (usually for tech professionals who found me via HN), freelance writing and already have some Patreon money for the assortment of homeless websites and the like that I already run which will be used to support this effort. If this takes off, yay! If not, I won't be jumping out of a window over it like someone on Black Tuesday in 1929.
- robertlagrant 6y ago
  > already have some Patreon money for the assortment of homeless websites and the like that I already run which will be used to support this effort. Forgive the question, but is it a good idea to spend money donated to homeless websites on this other venture?
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    That money is not being "donated." It is patronage because some people value my writing. Some of them have explicitly stated they were willing to join my Patreon because of my track record of hitting the front page of HN with unique content about homelessness and related issues. For example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22417487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22417487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22051911 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22051911 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21301374 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21301374 My point was not that I am "diverting funds" away from sites that typically cost little or nothing to run other than my time and effort. My point is that I am already surviving on freelance work and some Patreon support and the like and I already have a body of work pertinent to this problem space. See also: http://www.eclogiselle.com/2020/10/free-and-custom-flyers-as-lightweight.html http://www.eclogiselle.com/2020/10/free-and-custom-flyers-as...
    - Kye 6y ago
      It runs contrary to what people expect, but I hear this a lot, and it's been my experience. Patreon likes to brand itself as a membership platform, but most of the ~40 patrons who've come and gone for me just came to support. Few of them even look(ed) at posts while sticking around for months or years.
- roel_v 6y ago
  But... this answer just makes it more opaque? The blog posts starts out with "I am looking to serve small communities that would have trouble hiring someone at all to do planning and economic development work for them.". So I'm thinking you offer work in that field, right? But your website mentions copywriting and generic web development? What are these "small communities" you're talking about, if not small towns or neighbourhoods? Are you targeting small government agencies? If not, who are you targeting? What does Patreon have to do with it? I mean, no small organisation that can't afford a few thousand for consultancy work is going to pay a tiny recurring amount to some random person on the internet - just the accouting for those expenses will cost a multiple of the actual payment! You say "It's an experiment" - but what is? What are you offering? What are you asking, and who are you asking? So far the argument seems to be "some things are too expensive for some organisations, but I'm going to offer it cheaper!" without even knowing what those "some things" are? The post says "services under $5000 and some under $1000" - what are those services? If I have $2500, what can you do for me for that money?

by roel_v 6y ago

neltnerb 6y ago

I think you're spot on. I don't work in this area, mine is even easier to write proposals for. I still turn down projects that don't just pay by the hour, and don't involve at least a few hours... I hate writing proposals without getting paid. I hate donating my time in order to do endless negotiating. I hate spending unpaid hours nit picking over contracts. I hate dealing with startup founders who think they deserve to own everything in my head for a project that costs a few thousand dollars. It's too much work for a low likelihood small reward. I wish I could afford to help pro bono, and do when I can, but millennials I guess don't deserve financial security since how else would landlords pay their bills...

DoreenMichele 6y ago

Thank you for commenting. I homeschooled my now adult sons. I know from first-hand experience that a small organization doesn't need the bureaucratic bloat that larger organizations rely upon to manage their sheer size and such bloat is actively harmful and counterproductive below a certain size. I've already got a limited selection of free resources on the site that could be used today by small communities who think what I am doing is of interest to them. I hope to attract Patreon supporters who think this is simply a good idea. I plan to decide for myself what kinds of limited services to offer. I have no plans to play by the current set of "rules." I think they are broken on the face of it, which is why this market is so badly underserved. It's an experiment. It's okay if it fails. I also do resume work for $50/page (usually for tech professionals who found me via HN), freelance writing and already have some Patreon money for the assortment of homeless websites and the like that I already run which will be used to support this effort. If this takes off, yay! If not, I won't be jumping out of a window over it like someone on Black Tuesday in 1929.

robertlagrant 6y ago
> already have some Patreon money for the assortment of homeless websites and the like that I already run which will be used to support this effort. Forgive the question, but is it a good idea to spend money donated to homeless websites on this other venture?
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  That money is not being "donated." It is patronage because some people value my writing. Some of them have explicitly stated they were willing to join my Patreon because of my track record of hitting the front page of HN with unique content about homelessness and related issues. For example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22417487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22417487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22051911 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22051911 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21301374 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21301374 My point was not that I am "diverting funds" away from sites that typically cost little or nothing to run other than my time and effort. My point is that I am already surviving on freelance work and some Patreon support and the like and I already have a body of work pertinent to this problem space. See also: http://www.eclogiselle.com/2020/10/free-and-custom-flyers-as-lightweight.html http://www.eclogiselle.com/2020/10/free-and-custom-flyers-as...
  - Kye 6y ago
    It runs contrary to what people expect, but I hear this a lot, and it's been my experience. Patreon likes to brand itself as a membership platform, but most of the ~40 patrons who've come and gone for me just came to support. Few of them even look(ed) at posts while sticking around for months or years.
roel_v 6y ago
But... this answer just makes it more opaque? The blog posts starts out with "I am looking to serve small communities that would have trouble hiring someone at all to do planning and economic development work for them.". So I'm thinking you offer work in that field, right? But your website mentions copywriting and generic web development? What are these "small communities" you're talking about, if not small towns or neighbourhoods? Are you targeting small government agencies? If not, who are you targeting? What does Patreon have to do with it? I mean, no small organisation that can't afford a few thousand for consultancy work is going to pay a tiny recurring amount to some random person on the internet - just the accouting for those expenses will cost a multiple of the actual payment! You say "It's an experiment" - but what is? What are you offering? What are you asking, and who are you asking? So far the argument seems to be "some things are too expensive for some organisations, but I'm going to offer it cheaper!" without even knowing what those "some things" are? The post says "services under $5000 and some under $1000" - what are those services? If I have $2500, what can you do for me for that money?