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As Linus already acknowledged the kernel is getting dangerously bloated.

wladimir 15y ago
Maybe he should reconsider his stance on microkernels. It would be interesting if the original GNU OS idea (Hurd) was revived. Splitting up the thing will into separate processes would certainly help against bloat.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
  - danieldk 15y ago
    Note that the parent suggests reviving the idea, not the Hurd itself. ;)
    - rbanffy 15y ago
      I don't think Hurd is unfixable.
- rbanffy 15y ago
  Apple did that for a while with MkLinux before settling on NEXTSTEP. It ran fine on PPC Macs, and was based on a Mach microkernel. I converted lots of unused PowerMacintoshes nobody wanted (with MacOS 8 I can't blame them) at my then company to Unix workstations with that. When I later visited, every developer had one on their desk along their x86 PC.
rbanffy 15y ago
I think it's time to have some unit tests written and get bolder with refactoring. I remember smarter-than-me developers claiming it's impossible to have tests in the kernel, but I never quite got a satisfactory answer. BTW, is there a USB connected power meter that could be used to reliably measure power consumption? It's easy to setup abox that continuously deploys different kernel configurations and measures power consumption. With something like that we could have a good map of power consumption x kernel x hardware in a couple days.
- eli 15y ago
  Perhaps you could actually see a difference in current with a Kill-A-Watt or similar.
  - rbanffy 15y ago
    But that would be a manual step. The idea behind this would be to let the box build and test a succession of kernels, patch by patch, automatically, to find a regression. I wouldn't want to manually test a hundred kernels, but I can easily spare a box for a week.
    - eli 15y ago
      Ah, now I'm with you. I believe the high-end model does indeed have a USB connection though I would expect the software to be terrible
      - rbanffy 15y ago
        All we would need would be some way to gauge the instantaneous consumption at reading time. I would assume the tested kernel is capable of, at least, boot, check its power consumption under some workload (maybe compiling the kernel with the next patch set to be tested) and dumping that information to a file or a remote machine.
- lutorm 15y ago
  My APC UPS reports the power used. I don't know if there's a 3rd party API for it, though.

Maybe he should reconsider his stance on microkernels. It would be interesting if the original GNU OS idea (Hurd) was revived. Splitting up the thing will into separate processes would certainly help against bloat.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
- danieldk 15y ago
  Note that the parent suggests reviving the idea, not the Hurd itself. ;)
  - rbanffy 15y ago
    I don't think Hurd is unfixable.
rbanffy 15y ago
Apple did that for a while with MkLinux before settling on NEXTSTEP. It ran fine on PPC Macs, and was based on a Mach microkernel. I converted lots of unused PowerMacintoshes nobody wanted (with MacOS 8 I can't blame them) at my then company to Unix workstations with that. When I later visited, every developer had one on their desk along their x86 PC.

rbanffy 15y ago

I think it's time to have some unit tests written and get bolder with refactoring. I remember smarter-than-me developers claiming it's impossible to have tests in the kernel, but I never quite got a satisfactory answer. BTW, is there a USB connected power meter that could be used to reliably measure power consumption? It's easy to setup abox that continuously deploys different kernel configurations and measures power consumption. With something like that we could have a good map of power consumption x kernel x hardware in a couple days.

eli 15y ago
Perhaps you could actually see a difference in current with a Kill-A-Watt or similar.
- rbanffy 15y ago
  But that would be a manual step. The idea behind this would be to let the box build and test a succession of kernels, patch by patch, automatically, to find a regression. I wouldn't want to manually test a hundred kernels, but I can easily spare a box for a week.
  - eli 15y ago
    Ah, now I'm with you. I believe the high-end model does indeed have a USB connection though I would expect the software to be terrible
    - rbanffy 15y ago
      All we would need would be some way to gauge the instantaneous consumption at reading time. I would assume the tested kernel is capable of, at least, boot, check its power consumption under some workload (maybe compiling the kernel with the next patch set to be tested) and dumping that information to a file or a remote machine.
lutorm 15y ago
My APC UPS reports the power used. I don't know if there's a 3rd party API for it, though.