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Citation needed. This is the first I have heard of this and given how desperately the current administration wants to pin anything COVID-related on to China I

by evgen 6y ago

Citation needed. This is the first I have heard of this and given how desperately the current administration wants to pin anything COVID-related on to China I think that this would have been widely publicized if it were actually true.

gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
China did originate the virus as far as anyone can tell, they were not forthright with evidence, didn’t shut down travel globally and they seemed to push malign influence through the WHO. It’s not hard to see they have lots of blame and that has nothing to do with the US administration.
- evgen 6y ago
  The virus originated in China, but China did not 'originate the virus.' Please do not make unfounded speculation regarding the causality in this event. China has not been completely forthright about the early stages of the covid's spread and they engaged in tactics similar to, but not quite as bad, as what the current US administration and some states have done to try to hide the scope of the disease within their jurisdiction. It seems like a lot of countries have done poorly at communicating with their citizens and with each other regarding covid. China didn't shut down travel fast enough, but by the time things has started to appear and become concerning covid had already left China and was en route to Italy and the west coast of the US. Once the nature of the disease and particularly the asymptomatic transmission stage became clear everyone needed to adjust. To claim this is some fault of the Chinese government is pure BS. As for pushing 'malign' interest, you are entitled to your own opinions but that seems to be another unfounded value judgement that is just as easily dismissed as right-wing propaganda.
  - gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
    Insofar as other countries are blamed for failing to “contain” the virus, yes, China did originate it. They had knowledge of it being airborne, etc. and there’s ample evidence that information was scrubbed and suppressed as it typically happens in authoritarian regimes where disasters undermine the charade of omnipotence and excellence.
nickff 6y ago
Did you even bother looking yourself? Here's the top link from a search for "China urns covid": https://english.alarabiya.net/en/features/2020/03/31/Delivery-of-5-000-urns-undermines-China-s-coronavirus-official-death-toll-Report https://english.alarabiya.net/en/features/2020/03/31/Deliver...
- evgen 6y ago
  I did follow the link, and so far there seems to be a small cluster of stories all reprinting each other and the exact same pictures with reference to a single shipment to a single crematorium in late March. One. Single. Event. Where are the other shipments in to other cities? Where is the supply chain evidence that this was an across-the-board jump in urn orders and not a single entrepreneur aiming to pre-order big and then have inventory he could resell at a markup if things went bad? Where is the rest of the evidence?
  - nickff 6y ago
    You wanted a citation, I gave it to you, and now you’re shifting the goalposts. If you want more extensive evidence, I would invite you to investigate, and post your findings here. Lazy rhetoric is ruining HN, and your posts here are part of the problem.
    - evgen 6y ago
      You provided one very weak piece of supporting evidence and expect us to consider that a validation of your otherwise completely unfounded claim regarding China having a high death rate and hiding it? You are projecting when it comes to claims of shifting goalposts and lazy rhetoric. Let's go back to your original claim, shall we? "China was trucking in loads of urns every day that were more than ten times larger then their reported death rates; doesn't that count as visible evidence?" No, China was not trucking in loads of urns every day. There was one _single_ report of a large shipment and from the picture provided it would have trouble filling a single truck, certainly not 'loads.' Then there is that 'every day' lie. It was one single day. So yes, for a single day in March it was 'every day' and then for each day thereafter it was not. The number of urns delivered was double the reported death rate and not ten times. It would appear that every single clause of your short claim was wrong. I have a hard time seeing how that counts as supporting evidence.

by evgen 6y ago

gnusty_gnurc 6y ago

China did originate the virus as far as anyone can tell, they were not forthright with evidence, didn’t shut down travel globally and they seemed to push malign influence through the WHO. It’s not hard to see they have lots of blame and that has nothing to do with the US administration.

evgen 6y ago
The virus originated in China, but China did not 'originate the virus.' Please do not make unfounded speculation regarding the causality in this event. China has not been completely forthright about the early stages of the covid's spread and they engaged in tactics similar to, but not quite as bad, as what the current US administration and some states have done to try to hide the scope of the disease within their jurisdiction. It seems like a lot of countries have done poorly at communicating with their citizens and with each other regarding covid. China didn't shut down travel fast enough, but by the time things has started to appear and become concerning covid had already left China and was en route to Italy and the west coast of the US. Once the nature of the disease and particularly the asymptomatic transmission stage became clear everyone needed to adjust. To claim this is some fault of the Chinese government is pure BS. As for pushing 'malign' interest, you are entitled to your own opinions but that seems to be another unfounded value judgement that is just as easily dismissed as right-wing propaganda.
- gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
  Insofar as other countries are blamed for failing to “contain” the virus, yes, China did originate it. They had knowledge of it being airborne, etc. and there’s ample evidence that information was scrubbed and suppressed as it typically happens in authoritarian regimes where disasters undermine the charade of omnipotence and excellence.

nickff 6y ago

Did you even bother looking yourself? Here's the top link from a search for "China urns covid": https://english.alarabiya.net/en/features/2020/03/31/Delivery-of-5-000-urns-undermines-China-s-coronavirus-official-death-toll-Report https://english.alarabiya.net/en/features/2020/03/31/Deliver...

evgen 6y ago
I did follow the link, and so far there seems to be a small cluster of stories all reprinting each other and the exact same pictures with reference to a single shipment to a single crematorium in late March. One. Single. Event. Where are the other shipments in to other cities? Where is the supply chain evidence that this was an across-the-board jump in urn orders and not a single entrepreneur aiming to pre-order big and then have inventory he could resell at a markup if things went bad? Where is the rest of the evidence?
- nickff 6y ago
  You wanted a citation, I gave it to you, and now you’re shifting the goalposts. If you want more extensive evidence, I would invite you to investigate, and post your findings here. Lazy rhetoric is ruining HN, and your posts here are part of the problem.
  - evgen 6y ago
    You provided one very weak piece of supporting evidence and expect us to consider that a validation of your otherwise completely unfounded claim regarding China having a high death rate and hiding it? You are projecting when it comes to claims of shifting goalposts and lazy rhetoric. Let's go back to your original claim, shall we? "China was trucking in loads of urns every day that were more than ten times larger then their reported death rates; doesn't that count as visible evidence?" No, China was not trucking in loads of urns every day. There was one _single_ report of a large shipment and from the picture provided it would have trouble filling a single truck, certainly not 'loads.' Then there is that 'every day' lie. It was one single day. So yes, for a single day in March it was 'every day' and then for each day thereafter it was not. The number of urns delivered was double the reported death rate and not ten times. It would appear that every single clause of your short claim was wrong. I have a hard time seeing how that counts as supporting evidence.