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So I'm guessing you write all your code in brainfuck given that it has possibly the lowest complexity of all PLs? Tbh this complexity budget is a rather stupid

So I'm guessing you write all your code in brainfuck given that it has possibly the lowest complexity of all PLs? Tbh this complexity budget is a rather stupid notion in regard to programming languages. Higher level languages allow you to spend less cognition on the language provide you actually know the language. There's a very clear reason we are moving away from C to more complex languages.

CyberDildonics 6y ago
There is more cognitive overhead to bf, the programming language does not help you mitigate it. C++ destructors and rvalues help condense ownership without having to think about the execution path of a whole program. I'm not aware of what haskell features + tools pragmatically decrease the complexity of a program. If an experienced programmer is still fighting with the language heavily after 9 months and can't figure out a good way to debug programs, that should be a red flag if it is a consistent scenario.
- rowanG077 6y ago
  GADTs are insanely helpful in writing correct by construction code. That function indicate the effects it has in the type is possibly the greatest feature Haskell has. Haskell LSP is great allowing to write and evaluate doctests in real-time. Haskell can be learned in a couple of months of serious learning. If you don't get it after 9 months you simply weren't serious in learning it. It's not like Haskell is harder then any other language. It's concepts are different which makes it hard to learn. But C++ and Python are much harder to write code in then Haskell.
  - tome 6y ago
    > If you don't get it after 9 months you simply weren't serious in learning it. That seems a bit harsh. I can believe that everyone should be able to learn Haskell sufficiently well after a couple of months if they stumble across the correct learning material and have sufficient support. I can also see that someone from outside the community might make a solid effort for nine months and not make much progress, simply because the correct learning material wasn't easily discoverable.
    - rowanG077 6y ago
      To be clear. Serious in learning it would mean dedicating at least 8 hours a day to it. By for example starting a Haskell job and needing to learn the language. Besides I don't really think material is a valid excuse anymore given that there are so many tutorials and books available. There are also many chats and mailing lists where you can ask any question you might have that are beginner friendly.

CyberDildonics 6y ago

There is more cognitive overhead to bf, the programming language does not help you mitigate it. C++ destructors and rvalues help condense ownership without having to think about the execution path of a whole program. I'm not aware of what haskell features + tools pragmatically decrease the complexity of a program. If an experienced programmer is still fighting with the language heavily after 9 months and can't figure out a good way to debug programs, that should be a red flag if it is a consistent scenario.

rowanG077 6y ago
GADTs are insanely helpful in writing correct by construction code. That function indicate the effects it has in the type is possibly the greatest feature Haskell has. Haskell LSP is great allowing to write and evaluate doctests in real-time. Haskell can be learned in a couple of months of serious learning. If you don't get it after 9 months you simply weren't serious in learning it. It's not like Haskell is harder then any other language. It's concepts are different which makes it hard to learn. But C++ and Python are much harder to write code in then Haskell.
- tome 6y ago
  > If you don't get it after 9 months you simply weren't serious in learning it. That seems a bit harsh. I can believe that everyone should be able to learn Haskell sufficiently well after a couple of months if they stumble across the correct learning material and have sufficient support. I can also see that someone from outside the community might make a solid effort for nine months and not make much progress, simply because the correct learning material wasn't easily discoverable.
  - rowanG077 6y ago
    To be clear. Serious in learning it would mean dedicating at least 8 hours a day to it. By for example starting a Haskell job and needing to learn the language. Besides I don't really think material is a valid excuse anymore given that there are so many tutorials and books available. There are also many chats and mailing lists where you can ask any question you might have that are beginner friendly.