5 ms·

The New York Times Guild Once Again Demands Censorship of Colleagues

77 points by dandare 6y ago

dexen 6y ago
For reference, the Guild's tweet [1] (since deleted): "It says a lot about an organization when it breaks it's own rules and goes after one of it's own. The act, like the article, reeks." The tweet was condemning an op-ed by Bret Stephens[2], that applied mild criticism to The 1619 Project's playing fast-and-loose with history. -- [1] https://archive.is/705Tu https://archive.is/705Tu [2] https://archive.is/GTx3B https://archive.is/GTx3B
- yostrovs 6y ago
  The grammatical errors are disturbing to see, considering it's a tweet by a guild of New York Times.
  - dexen 6y ago
    The NYT has undergone a rapid replacement of its staff as of recent. Expect to see 30 year-olds in the "senior" roles.
    - belval 6y ago
      Even if not senior, these are not advanced grammar mistakes. A quick re-read would have caught those. It gives water to the other tweet indicating that whoever wrote this did not inform the guild beforehand.
- marcusverus 6y ago
  The person in charge of the NYT guild Twitter account doesn't know it's from its. The newspaper of record, everyone. A nice reminder that these types are always the loudest, but rarely the best and brightest of the bunch.
- belval 6y ago
  Thank you for taking the time to link the article, that was a very good read. I find it a stunning display of arrogance that journalists feel free to rewrite history in spite of multiple historians telling them that they are flat out wrong. Do they not understand that by doing these mental gymnastics to fit history to their biases, they are acting in bad faith exactly like a certain politician lying for public approval?
  - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
    But, but, but... we're doing it from our side! Unlike him, who is doing it from the wrong side! It's completely different! /s
- theandrewbailey 6y ago
  It gets worse: https://twitter.com/benyt/status/1315451891338313728 https://twitter.com/benyt/status/1315451891338313728 > Someone else active in the Times Union tells me that a leader of the chapter, who runs the account, tweeted about the Stephens column without any internal discussion, causing a furor in Slack and drawing heated objections from others in the Guild, and leading to this
  - detaro 6y ago
    Is that worse, or better?
    - theandrewbailey 6y ago
      It suggests that said leader in the journalist's union might not be a journalist, but an activist.
  - belval 6y ago
    I'd call that better. It shows that at the very least some people inside their groups are willing the discuss and debate. The level of groupthink is probably lower than previously thought and the guild might be salvageable.
  - dexen 6y ago
    It gets worse: https://archive.is/mlK3D https://archive.is/mlK3D Dean Baquet, the executive editor: >That criticism I firmly reject. The project fell fully within our standards as a news organization. In fact, 1619 - and especially the work of Nikole - fill me with pride. Any dissent got quashed from high above.
    - jgalt212 6y ago
      Dean is leading like a leader who cares more about keeping his job than doing a good job.
vvG94KbDUtRa 6y ago
Where would anyone get the idea that a columnist shouldn't criticize other writers at a paper? Everyone who works there is supposed to have the same ideas about everything?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- belval 6y ago
  Of course! Just like the graduate school always block papers that criticise pre-existing work. /s
- marcusverus 6y ago
  One writer wrote the 1619 project, which was publicly called out for lying about American history to advance a racially divisive narrative in times of racial sensitivity. They had to issue corrections, and followed up recently with a round of unacknowledged stealth edits. That was fine. These folks didn't criticize the writer whose agenda piece embarrassed the paper. But they criticize a writer for criticizing that article? How can a guild that makes this kind of bizarre decisions, which are clearly agenda-drive and divorced from any commitment to objective truth, be trusted with the newspaper of record?
  - zepto 6y ago
    Neither the paper nor the guild can be trusted at all.
viggity 6y ago
For added context about the shift from the The Paper of Record to The Paper of Rags, read Barry Weiss' resignation letter https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter
robomartin 6y ago
This article, from about three years ago, helped me understand how the media in the US got to where it is today. I would not be surprised to learn this mechanism is at play in other parts of the world. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/25/media-bubble-real-journalism-jobs-east-coast-215048 https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/25/media-bub...
syspec 6y ago
> Update: Oct. 11, 2020, 8:40 p.m. ET The New York Times Guild moments ago deleted its tweet denouncing Stephens and the paper, and then posted this [tweet by Nyt guild saying the deleted tweet was tweeted in error]

77 points by dandare 6y ago

For reference, the Guild's tweet [1] (since deleted): "It says a lot about an organization when it breaks it's own rules and goes after one of it's own. The act, like the article, reeks." The tweet was condemning an op-ed by Bret Stephens[2], that applied mild criticism to The 1619 Project's playing fast-and-loose with history. -- [1] https://archive.is/705Tu https://archive.is/705Tu [2] https://archive.is/GTx3B https://archive.is/GTx3B

yostrovs 6y ago
The grammatical errors are disturbing to see, considering it's a tweet by a guild of New York Times.
- dexen 6y ago
  The NYT has undergone a rapid replacement of its staff as of recent. Expect to see 30 year-olds in the "senior" roles.
  - belval 6y ago
    Even if not senior, these are not advanced grammar mistakes. A quick re-read would have caught those. It gives water to the other tweet indicating that whoever wrote this did not inform the guild beforehand.
marcusverus 6y ago
The person in charge of the NYT guild Twitter account doesn't know it's from its. The newspaper of record, everyone. A nice reminder that these types are always the loudest, but rarely the best and brightest of the bunch.
belval 6y ago
Thank you for taking the time to link the article, that was a very good read. I find it a stunning display of arrogance that journalists feel free to rewrite history in spite of multiple historians telling them that they are flat out wrong. Do they not understand that by doing these mental gymnastics to fit history to their biases, they are acting in bad faith exactly like a certain politician lying for public approval?
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  But, but, but... we're doing it from our side! Unlike him, who is doing it from the wrong side! It's completely different! /s
theandrewbailey 6y ago
It gets worse: https://twitter.com/benyt/status/1315451891338313728 https://twitter.com/benyt/status/1315451891338313728 > Someone else active in the Times Union tells me that a leader of the chapter, who runs the account, tweeted about the Stephens column without any internal discussion, causing a furor in Slack and drawing heated objections from others in the Guild, and leading to this
- detaro 6y ago
  Is that worse, or better?
  - theandrewbailey 6y ago
    It suggests that said leader in the journalist's union might not be a journalist, but an activist.
- belval 6y ago
  I'd call that better. It shows that at the very least some people inside their groups are willing the discuss and debate. The level of groupthink is probably lower than previously thought and the guild might be salvageable.
- dexen 6y ago
  It gets worse: https://archive.is/mlK3D https://archive.is/mlK3D Dean Baquet, the executive editor: >That criticism I firmly reject. The project fell fully within our standards as a news organization. In fact, 1619 - and especially the work of Nikole - fill me with pride. Any dissent got quashed from high above.
  - jgalt212 6y ago
    Dean is leading like a leader who cares more about keeping his job than doing a good job.

vvG94KbDUtRa 6y ago

Where would anyone get the idea that a columnist shouldn't criticize other writers at a paper? Everyone who works there is supposed to have the same ideas about everything?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
belval 6y ago
Of course! Just like the graduate school always block papers that criticise pre-existing work. /s
marcusverus 6y ago
One writer wrote the 1619 project, which was publicly called out for lying about American history to advance a racially divisive narrative in times of racial sensitivity. They had to issue corrections, and followed up recently with a round of unacknowledged stealth edits. That was fine. These folks didn't criticize the writer whose agenda piece embarrassed the paper. But they criticize a writer for criticizing that article? How can a guild that makes this kind of bizarre decisions, which are clearly agenda-drive and divorced from any commitment to objective truth, be trusted with the newspaper of record?
- zepto 6y ago
  Neither the paper nor the guild can be trusted at all.

viggity 6y ago

For added context about the shift from the The Paper of Record to The Paper of Rags, read Barry Weiss' resignation letter https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter

robomartin 6y ago

This article, from about three years ago, helped me understand how the media in the US got to where it is today. I would not be surprised to learn this mechanism is at play in other parts of the world. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/25/media-bubble-real-journalism-jobs-east-coast-215048 https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/25/media-bub...

syspec 6y ago

> Update: Oct. 11, 2020, 8:40 p.m. ET The New York Times Guild moments ago deleted its tweet denouncing Stephens and the paper, and then posted this [tweet by Nyt guild saying the deleted tweet was tweeted in error]