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https://www.springbankenergyhealing.com/dowsing.html https://www.springbankenergyhealing.com/dowsing.html [..] DOWSING - THE ANCIENT SCIENCE There are numerous

https://www.springbankenergyhealing.com/dowsing.html https://www.springbankenergyhealing.com/dowsing.html [..] DOWSING - THE ANCIENT SCIENCE There are numerous references to pendulums and dowsing tools in the art and literature of many ancient civilizations dating back as far as eight thousand years. These types of tools were also used by the Greeks and Romans of classical times, as well as the Celtic Druids and ancient Chinese. In 1949, while searching for evidence of lost civilizations in the Atlas Mountains of North Africa, a group of French explorers found a massive system of caverns known as the Tassili Caves. Many of the walls in these caverns were covered with wonderfully preserved pre-historic paintings. One of the most remarkable ones that they found was a huge wall painting of a dowser, holding a forked branch in his hand searching for water, surrounded by a group of admiring tribesmen. The wall murals in these caverns were carbon dated and found to be a least eight thousand years old. [Reference: https://dowsers.org/dowsing-history/ https://dowsers.org/dowsing-history/ Article by Lloyd Youngblood. Please visit this wonderful site for more comprehensive information about the history of dowsing. [..]

eesmith 6y ago
> as far as eight thousand years Given that the oldest written records are only 5,000 years old (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_documents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_documents ), I'm curious as to what that source might be. The Tassili cave art mentioned is 10,000 years old. I suspect the page you linked to made a mistake when writing that information. I'll also point out that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing says "Dowsing as practiced today may have originated in Germany during the 16th century, when it was used in attempts to find metals.". While the site you point to says: "Today’s European method of dowsing (the method we use at Springbank Energy Healing) evolved from the system practiced in ancient Egypt. This system was based on quantum physics and sacred geometry; and some of the pendulums in use today were modeled on the originals found in these ancient tombs." This sounds like standard pseudoscience nonsense to me. But I can be wrong. Where is the evidence? How do we know that "Cleopatra ... had dowsers with her at all times"? I just searched Plutarch's "Lives of the noble Grecians and Romans" at https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/674 https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/674 and found no mention of that. Concerning the Tassili caves, the site you pointed to in turn cites https://dowsers.org/dowsing-history/ https://dowsers.org/dowsing-history/ , which claims "Among the many fascinating wall murals, not only did they locate an art gallery devoted exclusively to the depictions of spacecraft and ET’s, they also found a remarkable huge wall painting of a dowser, holding a forked branch in his hand searching for water, surrounded by a group of admiring tribesmen. These wall murals were carbon dated and found to be a least 8000 years old." So you aren't exactly pointing to a good reference but an edited version of another source with introduced errors. And .. really? Spacecraft and ET's as well as dowsing? There's a long tradition of finding old things and claiming aliens did it. But was also know it's easy to look at something old, when we don't know the historical context, and read the wrong thing into it. Like this "time-traveling hipster" - https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/time-traveling-hipster/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/time-traveling-hipster/ or this 1943 beachgoer seemingly checking his mobile phone - https://www.foxnews.com/science/conspiracy-theorists-spot-time-traveler-using-mobile-phone-in-1940s-photo-during-world-war-ii https://www.foxnews.com/science/conspiracy-theorists-spot-ti... . That other site claims things like "how [in the Bible] both Moses and his son, Aaron, used a dowsing device referred to as “the Rod” to locate and bring forth water". But that 1) wasn't a dowsing rod but a staff or walking stick, and 2) Aaron was Moses's brother, not son, and 3) it wasn't dowsing for existing water because God told Moses that striking the stone would cause water to come out. It also says "The Jews learned the ancient art from their captors and in the Old Testament Prophet Hozea [sic] wrote: “They now consult their pieces of wood then the wand makes pronouncements from them!”". That appears to be Hosea 4:12 "My people ask counsel from their wooden idols / And their [a]staff informs them. / For the spirit of harlotry has caused them to stray, / And they have played the harlot against their God." https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hosea%204%3A12&version=NKJV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hosea%204%3A12&... . The [a] is "Diviner’s rod", and divining is indeed an ancient practice - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divination . But it isn't dowsing. Wikipedia even cross-references ""Divining" redirects here. For pseudoscientific attempts to find water or other things, see Dowsing."
- jelliclesfarm 6y ago
  The link was the first google result I got. I havent verified it as a valid source. Having said that, 8000 years ago seems reasonable in the timeline for proto writing..maybe even cuneiform or runic etches. They could have independently emerged at the same time in different parts of the world. What is your definition of pseudo science? Are you using the Popperian criteria?
  - eesmith 6y ago
    Why did you give it as a source if it doesn't even pass a basic smell test? I answered as I did as a way to show why I don't think it passes the smell test, with the thought that working through the methods might show you how to develop those sorts of critical skills. Another way to think of it is, is your time worth so much more than my time that I'm the one who is supposed to figure out if your citations are meaningful? Because that's a sure sign of a Gish gallop - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop . 8,000 years ago is over 2,000 years before the earliest known "cuneiform or runic etches". I linked you to the relevant Wikipedia page, which lists the Kish tablet from 5,200 years ago as the oldest known written document. Therefore, nothing "seems reasonable" about the claim. I'm fine with using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience as a working definition and find no need to get into the philosophy of science as it seems a distraction from the topics you raised.
    - jelliclesfarm 6y ago
      ok. thanks.

eesmith 6y ago

> as far as eight thousand years Given that the oldest written records are only 5,000 years old (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_documents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_documents ), I'm curious as to what that source might be. The Tassili cave art mentioned is 10,000 years old. I suspect the page you linked to made a mistake when writing that information. I'll also point out that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing says "Dowsing as practiced today may have originated in Germany during the 16th century, when it was used in attempts to find metals.". While the site you point to says: "Today’s European method of dowsing (the method we use at Springbank Energy Healing) evolved from the system practiced in ancient Egypt. This system was based on quantum physics and sacred geometry; and some of the pendulums in use today were modeled on the originals found in these ancient tombs." This sounds like standard pseudoscience nonsense to me. But I can be wrong. Where is the evidence? How do we know that "Cleopatra ... had dowsers with her at all times"? I just searched Plutarch's "Lives of the noble Grecians and Romans" at https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/674 https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/674 and found no mention of that. Concerning the Tassili caves, the site you pointed to in turn cites https://dowsers.org/dowsing-history/ https://dowsers.org/dowsing-history/ , which claims "Among the many fascinating wall murals, not only did they locate an art gallery devoted exclusively to the depictions of spacecraft and ET’s, they also found a remarkable huge wall painting of a dowser, holding a forked branch in his hand searching for water, surrounded by a group of admiring tribesmen. These wall murals were carbon dated and found to be a least 8000 years old." So you aren't exactly pointing to a good reference but an edited version of another source with introduced errors. And .. really? Spacecraft and ET's as well as dowsing? There's a long tradition of finding old things and claiming aliens did it. But was also know it's easy to look at something old, when we don't know the historical context, and read the wrong thing into it. Like this "time-traveling hipster" - https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/time-traveling-hipster/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/time-traveling-hipster/ or this 1943 beachgoer seemingly checking his mobile phone - https://www.foxnews.com/science/conspiracy-theorists-spot-time-traveler-using-mobile-phone-in-1940s-photo-during-world-war-ii https://www.foxnews.com/science/conspiracy-theorists-spot-ti... . That other site claims things like "how [in the Bible] both Moses and his son, Aaron, used a dowsing device referred to as “the Rod” to locate and bring forth water". But that 1) wasn't a dowsing rod but a staff or walking stick, and 2) Aaron was Moses's brother, not son, and 3) it wasn't dowsing for existing water because God told Moses that striking the stone would cause water to come out. It also says "The Jews learned the ancient art from their captors and in the Old Testament Prophet Hozea [sic] wrote: “They now consult their pieces of wood then the wand makes pronouncements from them!”". That appears to be Hosea 4:12 "My people ask counsel from their wooden idols / And their [a]staff informs them. / For the spirit of harlotry has caused them to stray, / And they have played the harlot against their God." https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hosea%204%3A12&version=NKJV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hosea%204%3A12&... . The [a] is "Diviner’s rod", and divining is indeed an ancient practice - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divination . But it isn't dowsing. Wikipedia even cross-references ""Divining" redirects here. For pseudoscientific attempts to find water or other things, see Dowsing."

jelliclesfarm 6y ago
The link was the first google result I got. I havent verified it as a valid source. Having said that, 8000 years ago seems reasonable in the timeline for proto writing..maybe even cuneiform or runic etches. They could have independently emerged at the same time in different parts of the world. What is your definition of pseudo science? Are you using the Popperian criteria?
- eesmith 6y ago
  Why did you give it as a source if it doesn't even pass a basic smell test? I answered as I did as a way to show why I don't think it passes the smell test, with the thought that working through the methods might show you how to develop those sorts of critical skills. Another way to think of it is, is your time worth so much more than my time that I'm the one who is supposed to figure out if your citations are meaningful? Because that's a sure sign of a Gish gallop - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop . 8,000 years ago is over 2,000 years before the earliest known "cuneiform or runic etches". I linked you to the relevant Wikipedia page, which lists the Kish tablet from 5,200 years ago as the oldest known written document. Therefore, nothing "seems reasonable" about the claim. I'm fine with using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience as a working definition and find no need to get into the philosophy of science as it seems a distraction from the topics you raised.
  - jelliclesfarm 6y ago
    ok. thanks.