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Fascinating. I have seen different methods of dowsing or water witching in different cultures/countries/continents/times. How did they evolve separately like t

Fascinating. I have seen different methods of dowsing or water witching in different cultures/countries/continents/times. How did they evolve separately like that as a system/pseudoscience?

eesmith 6y ago
Astrology exists in many cultures too. That doesn't mean it has validity as a mean of prediction. Without details of which cultural practices you refer to, I can say nothing. The Wikipedia page I linked to says the practice is over 500 years old in Europe. During the last 500 years, Europeans did, at some point or other, take control of almost every piece of land on the planet. It might be hard to say if some practice you saw is indigenous or imported from Europe, perhaps even 300 years ago.
- jelliclesfarm 6y ago
  All astrology came from the Babylonian system. I am studying the Indian branch of astrology now. I did some reading between the two comments. The Indian system combines it with astrology. The person who penned the book I was checking out was born in 505 AD. I don’t know if the practice existed before that. I am curious about South America and what the native people of the Americas did when they had to search for water. There has to be more to this and older than all this. In Iraq, Turkey...I am going to dig around.
  - eesmith 6y ago
    I believe the Mayans had their own astrological system independent of the Babylonian system. At least https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_astrology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_astrology says "On the fifth day after the birth of a boy, the Mayan astrologer-priests would cast his horoscope to see what his profession was to be: soldier, priest, civil servant or sacrificial victim" and "Venus was seen as a generally inauspicious and baleful influence, and Mayan rulers often planned the beginning of warfare to coincide with when Venus rose". However, I found it hard to find good resources using any of my standard search techniques as I'm overwhelmed with texts popularizing the use of Mayan astrology. I did eventually track down https://www.britannica.com/topic/Madrid-Codex https://www.britannica.com/topic/Madrid-Codex : > The [Madrid] codex contains a wealth of information on astrology and on divinatory practices. It has been of particular value to historians and anthropologists interested in identifying the various Mayan gods and reconstructing the rites that ushered in new years. It shows, for example, the Muluc years celebrated by a dance on high stilts. Also illustrated are Mayan crafts such as pottery and weaving and activities such as hunting.
- jelliclesfarm 6y ago
  https://www.springbankenergyhealing.com/dowsing.html https://www.springbankenergyhealing.com/dowsing.html [..] DOWSING - THE ANCIENT SCIENCE There are numerous references to pendulums and dowsing tools in the art and literature of many ancient civilizations dating back as far as eight thousand years. These types of tools were also used by the Greeks and Romans of classical times, as well as the Celtic Druids and ancient Chinese. In 1949, while searching for evidence of lost civilizations in the Atlas Mountains of North Africa, a group of French explorers found a massive system of caverns known as the Tassili Caves. Many of the walls in these caverns were covered with wonderfully preserved pre-historic paintings. One of the most remarkable ones that they found was a huge wall painting of a dowser, holding a forked branch in his hand searching for water, surrounded by a group of admiring tribesmen. The wall murals in these caverns were carbon dated and found to be a least eight thousand years old. [Reference: https://dowsers.org/dowsing-history/ https://dowsers.org/dowsing-history/ Article by Lloyd Youngblood. Please visit this wonderful site for more comprehensive information about the history of dowsing. [..]
  - eesmith 6y ago
    > as far as eight thousand years Given that the oldest written records are only 5,000 years old (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_documents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_documents ), I'm curious as to what that source might be. The Tassili cave art mentioned is 10,000 years old. I suspect the page you linked to made a mistake when writing that information. I'll also point out that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing says "Dowsing as practiced today may have originated in Germany during the 16th century, when it was used in attempts to find metals.". While the site you point to says: "Today’s European method of dowsing (the method we use at Springbank Energy Healing) evolved from the system practiced in ancient Egypt. This system was based on quantum physics and sacred geometry; and some of the pendulums in use today were modeled on the originals found in these ancient tombs." This sounds like standard pseudoscience nonsense to me. But I can be wrong. Where is the evidence? How do we know that "Cleopatra ... had dowsers with her at all times"? I just searched Plutarch's "Lives of the noble Grecians and Romans" at https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/674 https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/674 and found no mention of that. Concerning the Tassili caves, the site you pointed to in turn cites https://dowsers.org/dowsing-history/ https://dowsers.org/dowsing-history/ , which claims "Among the many fascinating wall murals, not only did they locate an art gallery devoted exclusively to the depictions of spacecraft and ET’s, they also found a remarkable huge wall painting of a dowser, holding a forked branch in his hand searching for water, surrounded by a group of admiring tribesmen. These wall murals were carbon dated and found to be a least 8000 years old." So you aren't exactly pointing to a good reference but an edited version of another source with introduced errors. And .. really? Spacecraft and ET's as well as dowsing? There's a long tradition of finding old things and claiming aliens did it. But was also know it's easy to look at something old, when we don't know the historical context, and read the wrong thing into it. Like this "time-traveling hipster" - https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/time-traveling-hipster/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/time-traveling-hipster/ or this 1943 beachgoer seemingly checking his mobile phone - https://www.foxnews.com/science/conspiracy-theorists-spot-time-traveler-using-mobile-phone-in-1940s-photo-during-world-war-ii https://www.foxnews.com/science/conspiracy-theorists-spot-ti... . That other site claims things like "how [in the Bible] both Moses and his son, Aaron, used a dowsing device referred to as “the Rod” to locate and bring forth water". But that 1) wasn't a dowsing rod but a staff or walking stick, and 2) Aaron was Moses's brother, not son, and 3) it wasn't dowsing for existing water because God told Moses that striking the stone would cause water to come out. It also says "The Jews learned the ancient art from their captors and in the Old Testament Prophet Hozea [sic] wrote: “They now consult their pieces of wood then the wand makes pronouncements from them!”". That appears to be Hosea 4:12 "My people ask counsel from their wooden idols / And their [a]staff informs them. / For the spirit of harlotry has caused them to stray, / And they have played the harlot against their God." https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hosea%204%3A12&version=NKJV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hosea%204%3A12&... . The [a] is "Diviner’s rod", and divining is indeed an ancient practice - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divination . But it isn't dowsing. Wikipedia even cross-references ""Divining" redirects here. For pseudoscientific attempts to find water or other things, see Dowsing."

Fascinating. I have seen different methods of dowsing or water witching in different cultures/countries/continents/times. How did they evolve separately like that as a system/pseudoscience?

eesmith 6y ago

Astrology exists in many cultures too. That doesn't mean it has validity as a mean of prediction. Without details of which cultural practices you refer to, I can say nothing. The Wikipedia page I linked to says the practice is over 500 years old in Europe. During the last 500 years, Europeans did, at some point or other, take control of almost every piece of land on the planet. It might be hard to say if some practice you saw is indigenous or imported from Europe, perhaps even 300 years ago.

jelliclesfarm 6y ago
All astrology came from the Babylonian system. I am studying the Indian branch of astrology now. I did some reading between the two comments. The Indian system combines it with astrology. The person who penned the book I was checking out was born in 505 AD. I don’t know if the practice existed before that. I am curious about South America and what the native people of the Americas did when they had to search for water. There has to be more to this and older than all this. In Iraq, Turkey...I am going to dig around.
- eesmith 6y ago
  I believe the Mayans had their own astrological system independent of the Babylonian system. At least https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_astrology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_astrology says "On the fifth day after the birth of a boy, the Mayan astrologer-priests would cast his horoscope to see what his profession was to be: soldier, priest, civil servant or sacrificial victim" and "Venus was seen as a generally inauspicious and baleful influence, and Mayan rulers often planned the beginning of warfare to coincide with when Venus rose". However, I found it hard to find good resources using any of my standard search techniques as I'm overwhelmed with texts popularizing the use of Mayan astrology. I did eventually track down https://www.britannica.com/topic/Madrid-Codex https://www.britannica.com/topic/Madrid-Codex : > The [Madrid] codex contains a wealth of information on astrology and on divinatory practices. It has been of particular value to historians and anthropologists interested in identifying the various Mayan gods and reconstructing the rites that ushered in new years. It shows, for example, the Muluc years celebrated by a dance on high stilts. Also illustrated are Mayan crafts such as pottery and weaving and activities such as hunting.
jelliclesfarm 6y ago
https://www.springbankenergyhealing.com/dowsing.html https://www.springbankenergyhealing.com/dowsing.html [..] DOWSING - THE ANCIENT SCIENCE There are numerous references to pendulums and dowsing tools in the art and literature of many ancient civilizations dating back as far as eight thousand years. These types of tools were also used by the Greeks and Romans of classical times, as well as the Celtic Druids and ancient Chinese. In 1949, while searching for evidence of lost civilizations in the Atlas Mountains of North Africa, a group of French explorers found a massive system of caverns known as the Tassili Caves. Many of the walls in these caverns were covered with wonderfully preserved pre-historic paintings. One of the most remarkable ones that they found was a huge wall painting of a dowser, holding a forked branch in his hand searching for water, surrounded by a group of admiring tribesmen. The wall murals in these caverns were carbon dated and found to be a least eight thousand years old. [Reference: https://dowsers.org/dowsing-history/ https://dowsers.org/dowsing-history/ Article by Lloyd Youngblood. Please visit this wonderful site for more comprehensive information about the history of dowsing. [..]
- eesmith 6y ago
  > as far as eight thousand years Given that the oldest written records are only 5,000 years old (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_documents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_documents ), I'm curious as to what that source might be. The Tassili cave art mentioned is 10,000 years old. I suspect the page you linked to made a mistake when writing that information. I'll also point out that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing says "Dowsing as practiced today may have originated in Germany during the 16th century, when it was used in attempts to find metals.". While the site you point to says: "Today’s European method of dowsing (the method we use at Springbank Energy Healing) evolved from the system practiced in ancient Egypt. This system was based on quantum physics and sacred geometry; and some of the pendulums in use today were modeled on the originals found in these ancient tombs." This sounds like standard pseudoscience nonsense to me. But I can be wrong. Where is the evidence? How do we know that "Cleopatra ... had dowsers with her at all times"? I just searched Plutarch's "Lives of the noble Grecians and Romans" at https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/674 https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/674 and found no mention of that. Concerning the Tassili caves, the site you pointed to in turn cites https://dowsers.org/dowsing-history/ https://dowsers.org/dowsing-history/ , which claims "Among the many fascinating wall murals, not only did they locate an art gallery devoted exclusively to the depictions of spacecraft and ET’s, they also found a remarkable huge wall painting of a dowser, holding a forked branch in his hand searching for water, surrounded by a group of admiring tribesmen. These wall murals were carbon dated and found to be a least 8000 years old." So you aren't exactly pointing to a good reference but an edited version of another source with introduced errors. And .. really? Spacecraft and ET's as well as dowsing? There's a long tradition of finding old things and claiming aliens did it. But was also know it's easy to look at something old, when we don't know the historical context, and read the wrong thing into it. Like this "time-traveling hipster" - https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/time-traveling-hipster/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/time-traveling-hipster/ or this 1943 beachgoer seemingly checking his mobile phone - https://www.foxnews.com/science/conspiracy-theorists-spot-time-traveler-using-mobile-phone-in-1940s-photo-during-world-war-ii https://www.foxnews.com/science/conspiracy-theorists-spot-ti... . That other site claims things like "how [in the Bible] both Moses and his son, Aaron, used a dowsing device referred to as “the Rod” to locate and bring forth water". But that 1) wasn't a dowsing rod but a staff or walking stick, and 2) Aaron was Moses's brother, not son, and 3) it wasn't dowsing for existing water because God told Moses that striking the stone would cause water to come out. It also says "The Jews learned the ancient art from their captors and in the Old Testament Prophet Hozea [sic] wrote: “They now consult their pieces of wood then the wand makes pronouncements from them!”". That appears to be Hosea 4:12 "My people ask counsel from their wooden idols / And their [a]staff informs them. / For the spirit of harlotry has caused them to stray, / And they have played the harlot against their God." https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hosea%204%3A12&version=NKJV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hosea%204%3A12&... . The [a] is "Diviner’s rod", and divining is indeed an ancient practice - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divination . But it isn't dowsing. Wikipedia even cross-references ""Divining" redirects here. For pseudoscientific attempts to find water or other things, see Dowsing."