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> ... stack is vue/python/s3/lambda/dynamodb/stripe Did you chose python for backend dev? Any framework like flask or django? Also no preference of single-lan

> ... stack is vue/python/s3/lambda/dynamodb/stripe Did you chose python for backend dev? Any framework like flask or django? Also no preference of single-language for both backend and front-end, by using node.js backend? Just trying to get into web-dev.

whalesalad 6y ago
Yes, it (Python) was chosen because we could leverage existing internal code that was written in Python and it happens to be my strongest language. If I could do it all over, I would still choose Python. That being said, I have been working professionally (building apps like this) for almost 14 years so my willingness to bite off a homebrew Python framework endeavor as I did here is a lot different than someone just getting into the field. Django: avoid unless you have a highly compelling (read: $$$$) reason to learn and use this tool. I cannot think of one, honestly. Flask: fantastic, but be conscientious about your project structure early on and try to keep businees-logic out of your handler functions (the ones that you decorate with @app...) Sophisticated or more sugary Node.js backends are not something I have ever explored, aside from the tried-n-true express.js. I tend to leverage Python for all of my backend tasks because I haven't found a compelling reason not to.
- darkteflon 6y ago
  Could you elaborate on why you dislike Django? Would be great to hear from someone with extensive Python experience.
  - empthought 6y ago
    Django gets you a lot if you have a traditional app with a traditional RDBMS and a traditional set of web servers. It’s too opinionated to easily map into AWS serverless.
  - StavrosK 6y ago
    On the flip side, not being able to use Django is one of the reasons against serverless for me. There's immense value in having a library for anything you might think of, installable and integratable in minutes. You have to roll your own way too often in Flask et al, so much so that I don't see any reason to use Flask for anything other than ad-hoc servers with only a few endpoints.
    - wussboy 6y ago
      Check out Django-Zappa. It’s Django that runs in a Lambda.
      - StavrosK 6y ago
        Oh I had forgotten about that, thanks!
  - whalesalad 6y ago
    That is such a tough question to answer carte blanche. All-in-all, Django is not bad software. I have a bad taste in my mouth though because as I learned and developed new approaches to solving problems in my career I feel like Django got in the way of that. For instance, there are some really killer ways you can model certain problems in a database by using things like single table inheritance or polymorphism. These are sorta possible in Django's ORM, but you are usually going against the grain and bending it to do things it wasn't really supposed to. Some might look at me and go: ok dude well don't do that! But there are plenty of times where it makes sense to deviate from convention. That is just one example, but I feel like I hit those road blocks all the time with Django. The benefit of Django is it is pre-assembled and you can basically hit the ground running immediately. The alternative is to use a microframework like Flask which is very lightweight and requires you to make conscious choices about integrating your data layer and other components. For some this is a real burden - because you are overwhelmed by choice as far as how you lay out your codebase as well as the specific libraries and tools you use. After your 20th API or website backend you will start to have some strong preferences about how you want to build things and that is why I tend to go for the compose-tiny-pieces approach versus the ready-to-run Django appraoch. It's really a trade-off. If you are content with the Django ORM and everything else that is presented, it is not so bad. If you know better, you know better. Only time and experience will get you there.
    - darkteflon 6y ago
      That's great, cheers for that. It's helpful to know that your concerns are mainly to do with taking an opinionated vs non-opinionated approach - that's a framework for thinking about the choice between Django and (e.g.) Flask that many people (including myself) can hang their hat on.
- slaymaker1907 6y ago
  Django is decent for POCs that need some level of security since you get authentication out of the box with no external database configuration necessary due to sqlite. Sometimes you have an endpoint that needs that due to resource usage, but the number of users is so low that setting up a complicated auth system isn’t worth it. Minimalist frameworks are great for either very small (since they don’t need much of anything) or very large projects (since they will need a bunch of customization regardless). In that regard, I think Django is kind of like the Wordpress of Python.
lstroud 6y ago
I really like Chalice for serverless Python projects.
collyw 6y ago
Benefits of a single language are outweighed by the fact that the language is JavaScript.

whalesalad 6y ago

Yes, it (Python) was chosen because we could leverage existing internal code that was written in Python and it happens to be my strongest language. If I could do it all over, I would still choose Python. That being said, I have been working professionally (building apps like this) for almost 14 years so my willingness to bite off a homebrew Python framework endeavor as I did here is a lot different than someone just getting into the field. Django: avoid unless you have a highly compelling (read: $$$$) reason to learn and use this tool. I cannot think of one, honestly. Flask: fantastic, but be conscientious about your project structure early on and try to keep businees-logic out of your handler functions (the ones that you decorate with @app...) Sophisticated or more sugary Node.js backends are not something I have ever explored, aside from the tried-n-true express.js. I tend to leverage Python for all of my backend tasks because I haven't found a compelling reason not to.

darkteflon 6y ago
Could you elaborate on why you dislike Django? Would be great to hear from someone with extensive Python experience.
- empthought 6y ago
  Django gets you a lot if you have a traditional app with a traditional RDBMS and a traditional set of web servers. It’s too opinionated to easily map into AWS serverless.
- StavrosK 6y ago
  On the flip side, not being able to use Django is one of the reasons against serverless for me. There's immense value in having a library for anything you might think of, installable and integratable in minutes. You have to roll your own way too often in Flask et al, so much so that I don't see any reason to use Flask for anything other than ad-hoc servers with only a few endpoints.
  - wussboy 6y ago
    Check out Django-Zappa. It’s Django that runs in a Lambda.
    - StavrosK 6y ago
      Oh I had forgotten about that, thanks!
- whalesalad 6y ago
  That is such a tough question to answer carte blanche. All-in-all, Django is not bad software. I have a bad taste in my mouth though because as I learned and developed new approaches to solving problems in my career I feel like Django got in the way of that. For instance, there are some really killer ways you can model certain problems in a database by using things like single table inheritance or polymorphism. These are sorta possible in Django's ORM, but you are usually going against the grain and bending it to do things it wasn't really supposed to. Some might look at me and go: ok dude well don't do that! But there are plenty of times where it makes sense to deviate from convention. That is just one example, but I feel like I hit those road blocks all the time with Django. The benefit of Django is it is pre-assembled and you can basically hit the ground running immediately. The alternative is to use a microframework like Flask which is very lightweight and requires you to make conscious choices about integrating your data layer and other components. For some this is a real burden - because you are overwhelmed by choice as far as how you lay out your codebase as well as the specific libraries and tools you use. After your 20th API or website backend you will start to have some strong preferences about how you want to build things and that is why I tend to go for the compose-tiny-pieces approach versus the ready-to-run Django appraoch. It's really a trade-off. If you are content with the Django ORM and everything else that is presented, it is not so bad. If you know better, you know better. Only time and experience will get you there.
  - darkteflon 6y ago
    That's great, cheers for that. It's helpful to know that your concerns are mainly to do with taking an opinionated vs non-opinionated approach - that's a framework for thinking about the choice between Django and (e.g.) Flask that many people (including myself) can hang their hat on.
slaymaker1907 6y ago
Django is decent for POCs that need some level of security since you get authentication out of the box with no external database configuration necessary due to sqlite. Sometimes you have an endpoint that needs that due to resource usage, but the number of users is so low that setting up a complicated auth system isn’t worth it. Minimalist frameworks are great for either very small (since they don’t need much of anything) or very large projects (since they will need a bunch of customization regardless). In that regard, I think Django is kind of like the Wordpress of Python.

lstroud 6y ago

I really like Chalice for serverless Python projects.

collyw 6y ago

Benefits of a single language are outweighed by the fact that the language is JavaScript.