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I've only been hired by impressed CEOs (small startup CEOs), and have to date never gotten a job offer in software through the standard recruitment process (n=5

I've only been hired by impressed CEOs (small startup CEOs), and have to date never gotten a job offer in software through the standard recruitment process (n=5 offers out of ~100 applications moved to interview, not counting applications seen but not considered via services like triplebyte). Well that's not entirely true, I did finally get an offer last week but it was downgraded from the advertised offer to "let's try out 3 months contract first".

krisroadruck 6y ago
^ Same. The last time I was out of work my wife was asking why I wasn't pounding the pavement sending out tons of cover letters and resumes and the like. I told her that in the 21 years I've been working, I've not gotten a single job via that route. It's always been networking. At some point about 10-15 years ago I just stopped even bothering with a resume at all. If I can't get in front of a decision maker, I don't consider it a viable opportunity. In contrast, About 75% of the time I've been able to speak directly to a department head, manager, or C-suite executive I've been hired on the back of a 30-45 minute conversation. I'll take a 3 out of 4 hit rate on a pair of conversations over sending out dozens of customized cover letters and resumes any day of the week.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- user5994461 6y ago
  What kind of companies are they? Small companies with less than 100 people? I've never seen any medium-large company where any single person was able to take a decision. Large companies cut all hiring power from their middle managers, forcing to interview with a whole panel, this prevents manager from favoring friends and building a fiefdom.
  - krisroadruck 6y ago
    Indeed, small companies. I don't have the right pedigree to make it through hiring hurdles at big companies. Despite industry name recognition and 11 years of experience I get filtered out because I never went to college. HR / People Ops / Recruiters tend to not know enough about the technical roles they are hiring for to gauge skill, so they go the lazy route and use college degrees or BigCo work history as a proxy. If you don't have a degree you can't get BigCo, so you fail on both fronts. Department heads and small company founders can tell if you know your stuff or not with a simple conversation. So that's what I've optimized for when looking for work. Routes to those people and around normal hiring filters.
nosianu 6y ago
You did not answer the question which was not if there ever was any case at all, but how many. An individual example is useless when the question is about if something works at (even minor) scale.
- dnautics 6y ago
  nobody is claiming that my experience is extrapolatable ad infinitum. However, if it was such a rare thing, what are the odds that someone like me would exist? > An individual example is useless when the question is about if something works at (even minor) scale That is incorrect. The plural of anecdote is data.
  - boyobo 6y ago
    > However, if it was such a rare thing, what are the odds that someone like me would exist? Someone wins the lottery every week. What are the odds of winning the lottery? Is playing the lottery a good strategy to make money?
    - dnautics 6y ago
      Did you not see the "n=5" bit?
      - boyobo 6y ago
        Do you understand the concept of correlation? "Usain bolt won the olypmic gold medal many times (n=8). If winning the gold medal was so rare, what are the odds that people like Usain Bolt exist?"
  - kyawzazaw 6y ago
    It's the rare thing. I bet that if you go to any big tech companies, you will find that pretty much none of the engineers got hired by impressing a CEO
    - deleted 6y ago

krisroadruck 6y ago

^ Same. The last time I was out of work my wife was asking why I wasn't pounding the pavement sending out tons of cover letters and resumes and the like. I told her that in the 21 years I've been working, I've not gotten a single job via that route. It's always been networking. At some point about 10-15 years ago I just stopped even bothering with a resume at all. If I can't get in front of a decision maker, I don't consider it a viable opportunity. In contrast, About 75% of the time I've been able to speak directly to a department head, manager, or C-suite executive I've been hired on the back of a 30-45 minute conversation. I'll take a 3 out of 4 hit rate on a pair of conversations over sending out dozens of customized cover letters and resumes any day of the week.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
user5994461 6y ago
What kind of companies are they? Small companies with less than 100 people? I've never seen any medium-large company where any single person was able to take a decision. Large companies cut all hiring power from their middle managers, forcing to interview with a whole panel, this prevents manager from favoring friends and building a fiefdom.
- krisroadruck 6y ago
  Indeed, small companies. I don't have the right pedigree to make it through hiring hurdles at big companies. Despite industry name recognition and 11 years of experience I get filtered out because I never went to college. HR / People Ops / Recruiters tend to not know enough about the technical roles they are hiring for to gauge skill, so they go the lazy route and use college degrees or BigCo work history as a proxy. If you don't have a degree you can't get BigCo, so you fail on both fronts. Department heads and small company founders can tell if you know your stuff or not with a simple conversation. So that's what I've optimized for when looking for work. Routes to those people and around normal hiring filters.

nosianu 6y ago

You did not answer the question which was not if there ever was any case at all, but how many. An individual example is useless when the question is about if something works at (even minor) scale.

dnautics 6y ago
nobody is claiming that my experience is extrapolatable ad infinitum. However, if it was such a rare thing, what are the odds that someone like me would exist? > An individual example is useless when the question is about if something works at (even minor) scale That is incorrect. The plural of anecdote is data.
- boyobo 6y ago
  > However, if it was such a rare thing, what are the odds that someone like me would exist? Someone wins the lottery every week. What are the odds of winning the lottery? Is playing the lottery a good strategy to make money?
  - dnautics 6y ago
    Did you not see the "n=5" bit?
    - boyobo 6y ago
      Do you understand the concept of correlation? "Usain bolt won the olypmic gold medal many times (n=8). If winning the gold medal was so rare, what are the odds that people like Usain Bolt exist?"
- kyawzazaw 6y ago
  It's the rare thing. I bet that if you go to any big tech companies, you will find that pretty much none of the engineers got hired by impressing a CEO
  - deleted 6y ago