4 ms·

So Microsoft should just throw away decades of work on DX because your feeling are hurt over Vulkan? Show me examples of Microsoft using coercive practices to m

So Microsoft should just throw away decades of work on DX because your feeling are hurt over Vulkan? Show me examples of Microsoft using coercive practices to make game developers use DX. Otherwise this is just more of the same "lets jump on the anti-MS bandwagon" hubris, looking for any angle to attack MS because that's the trend.

shmerl 6y ago
MS threw out their lock-in (ActiveX, Silverlight, whatever) when they lost browser wars and started collaborating on Web standards. What gives? Nothing stops them from being a good citizen when it comes to GPU APIs too. Except they profit form their lock-in and are hostile to competition (including Linux). So no, MS aren't friends of Linux. They only pretend to be friendly, when it suits them.
- tomnipotent 6y ago
  > Nothing stops them from being a good citizen Considering they gave the world DX which has been a net win for gamers, yeah definitely not a good citizen.
  - shmerl 6y ago
    They gave the world ActiveX too, and the world is better without it.
  - account42 6y ago
    > which has been a net win for gamers Has it? What do you know about the alternate universe in which Windows and Xbox did not have a proprietary grpahics API.
vetinari 6y ago
Microsoft is purchasing Linux-friendly game studios and canceling their Linux releases - see comment above for examples.
- tomnipotent 6y ago
  Linux gaming is a non-market, 0.59% according to Steam. Providing Linux support is fan service so folks can pat themselves on the back, not to mention bad business, considering the cost vs. reward. I love Linux, but lets stop pretending desktop is a gaming platform when it's not.
  - hansvm 6y ago
    That's a chick and egg problem though. I know plenty of people who maintain a Windows partition purely for games. That doesn't speak to the broader market, but pointing to the current Linux use rate for games to discredit what the use rate would be if it worked as well as in Windows is disingenuous. If Microsoft is actually buying studios intending to remove Linux support (the claim of intent probably also needs more evidence) then that could well be a strategic move to keep people from switching.
    - vetinari 6y ago
      > the claim of intent probably also needs more evidence There is none. Microsoft won't exactly do a press release to confirm exactly that, but the timing of events is suspicious. Things like this do not just happen randomly.
    - tomnipotent 6y ago
      > That's a chick and egg problem though Android mobile gaming is a multi-billion dollar industry. Guess what isn't? Linux desktop gaming. > I know plenty of people who maintain a Windows partition purely for games Selection bias. I'm guessing you know a lot more Linux users than the average person. > If Microsoft is actually buying studios intending to remove Linux support My guess is these games need to be compatible with Xbox and Windows, considering that's Microsoft business. That sounds like a completely practical business move.
      - shmerl 6y ago
        > Android mobile gaming is a multi-billion dollar industry. Guess what isn't? Linux desktop gaming. The name for this is platform politics (and I find it disgusting as a Linux user). Stadia came out having way less users than desktop Linux and game companies run to release for it, while continuing to ignore desktop Linux users. It's not about the size of the market like some like to excuse it with. It's about expected to be paid by "platform owner" or something of the sort. Linux has no owner, so these companies are at loss from whom to demand extra money, even if they can make profit from actually selling games to Linux gamers. They don't grok open platforms. Better companies which aren't into platform politics release games for Linux fine. So part of the blame is on those who are hung on platform politics. But it doesn't excuse anti-competitive behavior of MS in the least.
account42 6y ago
> So Microsoft should just throw away decades of work on DX DX12 is mostly a clean slate, just like Vulkan. > Show me examples of Microsoft using coercive practices to make game developers use DX. Xbox Windows Store Both prevent you from using open graphics APIs.

shmerl 6y ago

MS threw out their lock-in (ActiveX, Silverlight, whatever) when they lost browser wars and started collaborating on Web standards. What gives? Nothing stops them from being a good citizen when it comes to GPU APIs too. Except they profit form their lock-in and are hostile to competition (including Linux). So no, MS aren't friends of Linux. They only pretend to be friendly, when it suits them.

tomnipotent 6y ago
> Nothing stops them from being a good citizen Considering they gave the world DX which has been a net win for gamers, yeah definitely not a good citizen.
- shmerl 6y ago
  They gave the world ActiveX too, and the world is better without it.
- account42 6y ago
  > which has been a net win for gamers Has it? What do you know about the alternate universe in which Windows and Xbox did not have a proprietary grpahics API.

vetinari 6y ago

Microsoft is purchasing Linux-friendly game studios and canceling their Linux releases - see comment above for examples.

tomnipotent 6y ago
Linux gaming is a non-market, 0.59% according to Steam. Providing Linux support is fan service so folks can pat themselves on the back, not to mention bad business, considering the cost vs. reward. I love Linux, but lets stop pretending desktop is a gaming platform when it's not.
- hansvm 6y ago
  That's a chick and egg problem though. I know plenty of people who maintain a Windows partition purely for games. That doesn't speak to the broader market, but pointing to the current Linux use rate for games to discredit what the use rate would be if it worked as well as in Windows is disingenuous. If Microsoft is actually buying studios intending to remove Linux support (the claim of intent probably also needs more evidence) then that could well be a strategic move to keep people from switching.
  - vetinari 6y ago
    > the claim of intent probably also needs more evidence There is none. Microsoft won't exactly do a press release to confirm exactly that, but the timing of events is suspicious. Things like this do not just happen randomly.
  - tomnipotent 6y ago
    > That's a chick and egg problem though Android mobile gaming is a multi-billion dollar industry. Guess what isn't? Linux desktop gaming. > I know plenty of people who maintain a Windows partition purely for games Selection bias. I'm guessing you know a lot more Linux users than the average person. > If Microsoft is actually buying studios intending to remove Linux support My guess is these games need to be compatible with Xbox and Windows, considering that's Microsoft business. That sounds like a completely practical business move.
    - shmerl 6y ago
      > Android mobile gaming is a multi-billion dollar industry. Guess what isn't? Linux desktop gaming. The name for this is platform politics (and I find it disgusting as a Linux user). Stadia came out having way less users than desktop Linux and game companies run to release for it, while continuing to ignore desktop Linux users. It's not about the size of the market like some like to excuse it with. It's about expected to be paid by "platform owner" or something of the sort. Linux has no owner, so these companies are at loss from whom to demand extra money, even if they can make profit from actually selling games to Linux gamers. They don't grok open platforms. Better companies which aren't into platform politics release games for Linux fine. So part of the blame is on those who are hung on platform politics. But it doesn't excuse anti-competitive behavior of MS in the least.

account42 6y ago

> So Microsoft should just throw away decades of work on DX DX12 is mostly a clean slate, just like Vulkan. > Show me examples of Microsoft using coercive practices to make game developers use DX. Xbox Windows Store Both prevent you from using open graphics APIs.