5 ms·

except that child seats are mostly safety theater, of course

jankiehodgpodge 6y ago
Is there any evidence for that? I know that for example women are more likely to be injured in car crashes because most car seats/interiors are designed around the average man so if be surprised if a human half didn't need to be raised or put in a safer position.
- kofejnik 6y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5gMZcZWm0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5gMZcZWm0 https://freakonomics.com/2007/01/05/we-are-not-the-only-ones-who-think-child-car-seats-dont-work-well/ https://freakonomics.com/2007/01/05/we-are-not-the-only-ones...
  - JshWright 6y ago
    So your "evidence" is a single anecdotal account from over a decade ago? Actual accident data doesn't back you up...
- hurxnid 6y ago
  Don’t men get in more accidents?
  - bee_rider 6y ago
    Yes, because seatbelts are so effective for us, it turns out there is no selective pressure avoid car crashes.
    - ineedasername 6y ago
      I didn't know that about seatbelts. All these years of careful driving have been wasted on me.
  - Igelau 6y ago
    It only looks that way because we get in more on-purposes.
nomel 6y ago
If you've ever tried to buckle a toddler into a standard 3 point belt made for adults, you'll see that the lap belt goes directly across their throat.
jethro_tell 6y ago
Absolutely not the case. A 5 point harness is best. A car seat converts two or three point harness to a 5 point. Which is great, because those soft little bodies need as many touch points as is possible to spread the load of force. We know for a fact that the 5 point harness is the best, that is why race car drivers use 5 point harnesses instead of lap belts. The three point harness is a good compromise between the uselessness of a lap belt and the incovinience of a 5 point harness. But its certainly not as good as a 5. Point harness.
- snazz 6y ago
  I think the other reason that street cars don't use five-point harnesses (and why using them is illegal in most states) is that they immobilize your shoulders and neck too well, which makes rollovers more dangerous without a roll cage. You can't lean forward when the roof collapses, so you can be paralyzed.
  - mcguire 6y ago
    And it's hard to look towards the rear quarters.
    - snazz 6y ago
      Ah, that's another good point. Turning your head happens a lot more in street driving than racing.
      - kube-system 6y ago
        And also they're inconvenient and don't auto adjust. 3-point belts are made to be as quick and fool proof as possible so that people actually use them, and use them correctly. Importantly, they auto-retract so that they are worn in the proper position. When you put on 5-point belts, you have to 4 times as many latches to operate, and you have to adjust all 5 belts -- and in the proper order. If you tighten the belts in the wrong order, they won't protect you properly. It is not intuitive -- I have a car with 5-points and the passengers who manage to figure out how to latch them almost universally tighten the belts wrong.
philjohn 6y ago
Except they're totally not, and saying that is dangerous. Go look at crash tests of "child car seats" that are nothing more than a box ticking exercise which uses the adult seat, versus a properly engineering seat and you'll see what you are completely wrong.
- kofejnik 6y ago
  https://freakonomics.com/2007/01/05/we-are-not-the-only-ones-who-think-child-car-seats-dont-work-well/ https://freakonomics.com/2007/01/05/we-are-not-the-only-ones...
  - mikeyouse 6y ago
    That Freakonomics article is from 2007 and was only pointing out that manufacturers don't test all scenarios - not anything resembling your claim that they're just "safety theater". CDC strongly disagrees based on actual accident data (click risk reduction at the following link): https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/child_passenger_safety/cps-factsheet.html#:~:text=Car%20seat%20use%20reduces%20the,with%20seat%20belt%20use%20alone.&text=Booster%20seat%20use%20reduces%20the,with%20seat%20belt%20use%20alone https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/child_passenger_safet....
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
ineedasername 6y ago
Wrong. There's about a 70-80% risk reduction for injury: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15094411/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15094411/

Is there any evidence for that? I know that for example women are more likely to be injured in car crashes because most car seats/interiors are designed around the average man so if be surprised if a human half didn't need to be raised or put in a safer position.

kofejnik 6y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5gMZcZWm0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5gMZcZWm0 https://freakonomics.com/2007/01/05/we-are-not-the-only-ones-who-think-child-car-seats-dont-work-well/ https://freakonomics.com/2007/01/05/we-are-not-the-only-ones...
- JshWright 6y ago
  So your "evidence" is a single anecdotal account from over a decade ago? Actual accident data doesn't back you up...
hurxnid 6y ago
Don’t men get in more accidents?
- bee_rider 6y ago
  Yes, because seatbelts are so effective for us, it turns out there is no selective pressure avoid car crashes.
  - ineedasername 6y ago
    I didn't know that about seatbelts. All these years of careful driving have been wasted on me.
- Igelau 6y ago
  It only looks that way because we get in more on-purposes.

nomel 6y ago

If you've ever tried to buckle a toddler into a standard 3 point belt made for adults, you'll see that the lap belt goes directly across their throat.

jethro_tell 6y ago

Absolutely not the case. A 5 point harness is best. A car seat converts two or three point harness to a 5 point. Which is great, because those soft little bodies need as many touch points as is possible to spread the load of force. We know for a fact that the 5 point harness is the best, that is why race car drivers use 5 point harnesses instead of lap belts. The three point harness is a good compromise between the uselessness of a lap belt and the incovinience of a 5 point harness. But its certainly not as good as a 5. Point harness.

snazz 6y ago
I think the other reason that street cars don't use five-point harnesses (and why using them is illegal in most states) is that they immobilize your shoulders and neck too well, which makes rollovers more dangerous without a roll cage. You can't lean forward when the roof collapses, so you can be paralyzed.
- mcguire 6y ago
  And it's hard to look towards the rear quarters.
  - snazz 6y ago
    Ah, that's another good point. Turning your head happens a lot more in street driving than racing.
    - kube-system 6y ago
      And also they're inconvenient and don't auto adjust. 3-point belts are made to be as quick and fool proof as possible so that people actually use them, and use them correctly. Importantly, they auto-retract so that they are worn in the proper position. When you put on 5-point belts, you have to 4 times as many latches to operate, and you have to adjust all 5 belts -- and in the proper order. If you tighten the belts in the wrong order, they won't protect you properly. It is not intuitive -- I have a car with 5-points and the passengers who manage to figure out how to latch them almost universally tighten the belts wrong.

philjohn 6y ago

Except they're totally not, and saying that is dangerous. Go look at crash tests of "child car seats" that are nothing more than a box ticking exercise which uses the adult seat, versus a properly engineering seat and you'll see what you are completely wrong.

kofejnik 6y ago
https://freakonomics.com/2007/01/05/we-are-not-the-only-ones-who-think-child-car-seats-dont-work-well/ https://freakonomics.com/2007/01/05/we-are-not-the-only-ones...
- mikeyouse 6y ago
  That Freakonomics article is from 2007 and was only pointing out that manufacturers don't test all scenarios - not anything resembling your claim that they're just "safety theater". CDC strongly disagrees based on actual accident data (click risk reduction at the following link): https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/child_passenger_safety/cps-factsheet.html#:~:text=Car%20seat%20use%20reduces%20the,with%20seat%20belt%20use%20alone.&text=Booster%20seat%20use%20reduces%20the,with%20seat%20belt%20use%20alone https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/child_passenger_safet....
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

ineedasername 6y ago

Wrong. There's about a 70-80% risk reduction for injury: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15094411/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15094411/