4 ms·

The study controls for that variable: > The newspaper’s analysis used the military’s database and paired it with a database of fatal police shootings from acro

The study controls for that variable: > The newspaper’s analysis used the military’s database and paired it with a database of fatal police shootings from across the state, controlling for statistical variables like community income, rural-urban differences, racial makeup, and violent crime rates. The article explicitly cautions against drawing conclusions about causality. My intuition is that there’s truth to both explanations: cosplaying as a military makes police more violent, and intrinsically violent departments are more likely to seek out military equipment. And frankly, the second conclusion scares me more. If the causal relationship is “equipment —> violence”, we can solve it by simply banning the use of military equipment by police. If the relationship goes the other way, though, we still have to deal with violent cops who want to hurt civilians.

anthony_romeo 6y ago
> If the relationship goes the other way, though, we still have to deal with violent cops who want to hurt civilians. If the problem is iterative, then I'd think in terms of adjusting probabilities in a Markov chain, and having the goal be to minimize instances of avoidable police violence over time. Anyway, it's not possible to eliminate violence from the police, unless we find a way to eliminate violence from human nature, so the goals should be about adjusting priorities, duties, and tone to minimize unnecessary violence.
craftinator 6y ago
Something I've long thought on is what types of people are attracted to the US police force. If you look at it economically, by what incentives are offered, it's a bit disturbing: 1) Power over others 2) Chance to stop violence 3) Little educational requirements 4) Access to cool gear 5) Immunity from law 6) Ability to help or hurt weaker people 7) Access to drugs, guns, etc... The list goes on, but I really see two types of people drawn to these: those that seek to help, and those that seek power. The defenders, and the bullies. The saviors, and the criminals. It's naive to expect that one type makes it through much more often than the other (the "a few bad apples" analogy). If I were in organized crime, or a gang, or a neo-nazi, or just someone who was a sociopath, what better possible job is there than being a cop? Would it be that hard to fake it through whatever screenings they use (which can be NONE in some PDs) to weed out the bad actors? No. We must expect some large minority or even a majority of cops to fall into the class of bad actors.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  one more thing to add to your list is that police tend to be pretty well paid for their level of education. in my area, starting salary for a police officer is not much lower than a typical salary for a junior dev. a rank-and-file cop with a few years of experience who pulls a lot of OT can make a surprising amount of money.
regularfry 6y ago
We would have to deal with violent cops who want to hurt civilians, but at least they'd have less efficient tools to do so. And maybe the violent people would be less drawn to a career in law enforcement if it wasn't associated with a militarised image. If it's both effects at the same time, in a feedback loop, it's actually ok - you can stop the loop by cutting either effect.
- alisonkisk 6y ago
  When I think of the outrageous crimes committed by police, I see handguns and batons and knees, not military gear. I suspect the tacticool gear is more about the culture and mindset (your second effect). As tech companies attract computer nerds with computer toys, LE attacks violence nerds with violence toys.
- stjohnswarts 6y ago
  I'm sorry a 38 caliber "old school" pistol will kill you just about as quickly as an AR15 and a shot gun with correct shells will be far more likely to end you. It's not about the style of gun, it's about who's using it and how aggressive they are.

anthony_romeo 6y ago

> If the relationship goes the other way, though, we still have to deal with violent cops who want to hurt civilians. If the problem is iterative, then I'd think in terms of adjusting probabilities in a Markov chain, and having the goal be to minimize instances of avoidable police violence over time. Anyway, it's not possible to eliminate violence from the police, unless we find a way to eliminate violence from human nature, so the goals should be about adjusting priorities, duties, and tone to minimize unnecessary violence.

craftinator 6y ago

Something I've long thought on is what types of people are attracted to the US police force. If you look at it economically, by what incentives are offered, it's a bit disturbing: 1) Power over others 2) Chance to stop violence 3) Little educational requirements 4) Access to cool gear 5) Immunity from law 6) Ability to help or hurt weaker people 7) Access to drugs, guns, etc... The list goes on, but I really see two types of people drawn to these: those that seek to help, and those that seek power. The defenders, and the bullies. The saviors, and the criminals. It's naive to expect that one type makes it through much more often than the other (the "a few bad apples" analogy). If I were in organized crime, or a gang, or a neo-nazi, or just someone who was a sociopath, what better possible job is there than being a cop? Would it be that hard to fake it through whatever screenings they use (which can be NONE in some PDs) to weed out the bad actors? No. We must expect some large minority or even a majority of cops to fall into the class of bad actors.

leetcrew 6y ago
one more thing to add to your list is that police tend to be pretty well paid for their level of education. in my area, starting salary for a police officer is not much lower than a typical salary for a junior dev. a rank-and-file cop with a few years of experience who pulls a lot of OT can make a surprising amount of money.

regularfry 6y ago

We would have to deal with violent cops who want to hurt civilians, but at least they'd have less efficient tools to do so. And maybe the violent people would be less drawn to a career in law enforcement if it wasn't associated with a militarised image. If it's both effects at the same time, in a feedback loop, it's actually ok - you can stop the loop by cutting either effect.

alisonkisk 6y ago
When I think of the outrageous crimes committed by police, I see handguns and batons and knees, not military gear. I suspect the tacticool gear is more about the culture and mindset (your second effect). As tech companies attract computer nerds with computer toys, LE attacks violence nerds with violence toys.
stjohnswarts 6y ago
I'm sorry a 38 caliber "old school" pistol will kill you just about as quickly as an AR15 and a shot gun with correct shells will be far more likely to end you. It's not about the style of gun, it's about who's using it and how aggressive they are.