5 ms·

Free speech isn't the issue here. It's not censorship, it's moderation, and companies have every right to moderate what content is allowed on their platforms.

Free speech isn't the issue here. It's not censorship, it's moderation, and companies have every right to moderate what content is allowed on their platforms. I think it's important to distinguish between the two. Censorship, that is the government proscribing or restricting what people say and thinks in general/public/day-to-day life, is an egregious attack on people's liberty. I think we shouldn't tolerate any limitations on free speech. Moderation, or companies determining a code-of-conduct for the properties and platforms they control, is the same as someone telling you to shut up or get out of their house if you say something that offends them. I think what's important there is that the code of conduct is clearly stated, objective, and enforced even-handedly, which hasn't always been the case as of late.

BlueTemplar 6y ago
It becomes an issue when a company gets so big that it can control a significant fraction of the above-mentioned "what people say and thinks in general/public/day-to-day life". https://onezero.medium.com/how-to-destroy-surveillance-capitalism-8135e6744d59 https://onezero.medium.com/how-to-destroy-surveillance-capit...
adinisom 6y ago
Censorship in the form of moderation often makes sense for businesses seeking to maintain their properties. If I run a forum for car enthusiasts, I should be able to curate the community and limit discussions on locomotives. But what of the platforms that make my forum possible? The Cloudflares the protect from DDoS, the DigitalOceans that provide the servers, the ISPs that provide transit, the Facebooks that provide social media support? Should they have the freedom to decide they don't like my forum and kick me off? I've come to believe that the more general purpose a service is and the more communication it controls, the more harmful the business's freedom to censor is for a free society.
- tremon 6y ago
  Should they have the freedom to decide they don't like my forum and kick me off? Yes. Their infrastructure is still private property, and you're using it to provide your own service. Similarly, if you rent a shop space in a food plaza and start a car mechanic's garage there, the owner of the food plaza will kick you out. That the government has a hard-on for monopolies doesn't change the fact that you're still building your service on private infrastructure.
  - neckardt 6y ago
    _ Should they have the freedom to decide they don't like my forum and kick me off?_ I would say the opposite: No. While it might be _legal_ for them to kick me off, I don't think a private company should decide what I say on their platform. For example, should my ISP block websites of competing ISPs if they so choose? What about posting on Facebook that Comcast sucks, should I get my internet disabled for that?
  - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
    > Similarly, if you rent a shop space in a food plaza and start a car mechanic's garage there, the owner of the food plaza will kick you out. I think a better analogy would be getting kicked out for serving food that the plaza owner doesn't approve of.
LanceH 6y ago
Except that Congress is leaning on FB right now to remove "fake news". Facebook's sudden interest in removing content is inextricably tied to censorship until the government stops pressuring.
holoduke 6y ago
It's Facebook who serves the content because of their money driven algorithms. If you would just serve content coming from your friends and some random ads, then all this bullshit content won't be a problem at all. Facebook is the only problem here. Not the people behind these fake stories.

BlueTemplar 6y ago

It becomes an issue when a company gets so big that it can control a significant fraction of the above-mentioned "what people say and thinks in general/public/day-to-day life". https://onezero.medium.com/how-to-destroy-surveillance-capitalism-8135e6744d59 https://onezero.medium.com/how-to-destroy-surveillance-capit...

adinisom 6y ago

Censorship in the form of moderation often makes sense for businesses seeking to maintain their properties. If I run a forum for car enthusiasts, I should be able to curate the community and limit discussions on locomotives. But what of the platforms that make my forum possible? The Cloudflares the protect from DDoS, the DigitalOceans that provide the servers, the ISPs that provide transit, the Facebooks that provide social media support? Should they have the freedom to decide they don't like my forum and kick me off? I've come to believe that the more general purpose a service is and the more communication it controls, the more harmful the business's freedom to censor is for a free society.

tremon 6y ago
Should they have the freedom to decide they don't like my forum and kick me off? Yes. Their infrastructure is still private property, and you're using it to provide your own service. Similarly, if you rent a shop space in a food plaza and start a car mechanic's garage there, the owner of the food plaza will kick you out. That the government has a hard-on for monopolies doesn't change the fact that you're still building your service on private infrastructure.
- neckardt 6y ago
  _ Should they have the freedom to decide they don't like my forum and kick me off?_ I would say the opposite: No. While it might be _legal_ for them to kick me off, I don't think a private company should decide what I say on their platform. For example, should my ISP block websites of competing ISPs if they so choose? What about posting on Facebook that Comcast sucks, should I get my internet disabled for that?
- read_if_gay_ 6y ago
  > Similarly, if you rent a shop space in a food plaza and start a car mechanic's garage there, the owner of the food plaza will kick you out. I think a better analogy would be getting kicked out for serving food that the plaza owner doesn't approve of.

LanceH 6y ago

Except that Congress is leaning on FB right now to remove "fake news". Facebook's sudden interest in removing content is inextricably tied to censorship until the government stops pressuring.

holoduke 6y ago

It's Facebook who serves the content because of their money driven algorithms. If you would just serve content coming from your friends and some random ads, then all this bullshit content won't be a problem at all. Facebook is the only problem here. Not the people behind these fake stories.