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Trouble is that Holocaust denial isn't spam, bots, threats of violence, abuse, or scams. It's a different interpretation of history, something that is protecte

Trouble is that Holocaust denial isn't spam, bots, threats of violence, abuse, or scams. It's a different interpretation of history, something that is protected under the First Amendment. Except these sites aren't considered public forums for some reason, even though they've supplanted the public forum in modern society. When a handful of corporations determine the Overton Window in society, that is a cause for concern.

crumbshot 6y ago
Nothing is stopping the Holocaust deniers from posting all their "different interpretion" nonsense on Stormfront or whatever. There are no 'first amendment' issues here, as no new law has been passed compelling Facebook to do this. It's simply Facebook saying they don't want this sort of antisemitic rubbish published and amplified via their platform.
ShamelessC 6y ago
Okay, just take a step back. Do we have to be so principled about all this? Holocaust Deniers are bad. Full stop. We all keep going back and forth on these principled stances about how freedom of speech is some holy thing that should be protected at all costs no matter how much damage it causes. That notion is absurd in my experience. This philosophical ideal of true freedom of speech doesn't even exist! 4Chan still has to censor child porn - and thanks God! Child pornography is horrible and no one should ever be able to hide behind the guise of "free speech" to get away with dissemination of it. You know what else is horrible? A huge population of people were tortured, starved and gassed to death with numbers in the millions. But do you know what happened after that ended? People tried to pretend it didn't happen at all. And they still are. Now, I'm not Jewish, but just thinking about that makes me sick. The idea that someone is out there gaslighting people into believing the holocaust doesn't exist is despicable. If you proposed holocaust denial on this website you'd be in violation of its rules and be flagged or banned. The site is better because of these rules. And finally, I'd like to pose a thought experiment - If Hitler were alive today, how do you think he would gain power? Misinformation campaigns, appeals to white nationalism and racist dog whistles on one of the major social networks no doubt. Of course, Facebook, Google, Twitter etc. are dealing with a very similar scenario right now with Donald Trump who has intentionally divided this country to its breaking point all while likely (indirectly) killing thousands of people by sending them confusing and false messaging about the coronavirus and don't let me forget he's literally stated his intent to steal the election if he loses. You know, basically just textbook fascism. Ban them. All of them. Today. Edit: Made things sightly less emotionally charged and rage-baiting. Apologies for the harsh (er) words. I understand it's not in the spirit of the discourse we want to encourage here.
- Zpalmtree 6y ago
  Donald Trump is Literally Hitler and we should take away freedom of speech from all his supporters!
- tomp 6y ago
  > Holocaust Deniers are pieces of shit. Full stop. A decent society considers even pieces of shit worthy of human dignity.
  - ShamelessC 6y ago
    And does your unclear definition of a "decent society" and "human dignity" imply that yelling fire in a theatre (or denying the holocaust) is acceptable behavior? I mean, we both just called them pieces of shit. My version of the word "dignity" generally precludes people who have shown they have no dignity. At any rate, I suspect you wrote this particular argument because it lacks nuance, appeals to our sense of decency and is emotionally appealing to those who already hold the viewpoint. Were you trying to change my mind? Or just trying to find out how many people agree with you?
- malwrar 6y ago
  It is amusing that you propose the vigorous use of force (“Ban Them. All of them. Today”) to eliminate voices you deem fascist. If you feel this strongly about the harm of holocaust denial, have you considered working to convince people the holocaust did in fact happen? It’s pretty easy—-plenty of evidence exists to suggest it happened and all attempts I’ve encountered of people make a case otherwise have been debunked. I guess it’s not worth the effort to actually talk to people though, easier to just convince someone they’re wrong by threat of force.
  - TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
    To be fair, social media does facilitate both social contagion and echo chamber formation, the combination of which can form very fastidious communities. Its not a simple issue, but I don't think putting this power in the hands of a few for-profit corporations is the right solution.

crumbshot 6y ago

Nothing is stopping the Holocaust deniers from posting all their "different interpretion" nonsense on Stormfront or whatever. There are no 'first amendment' issues here, as no new law has been passed compelling Facebook to do this. It's simply Facebook saying they don't want this sort of antisemitic rubbish published and amplified via their platform.

ShamelessC 6y ago

Okay, just take a step back. Do we have to be so principled about all this? Holocaust Deniers are bad. Full stop. We all keep going back and forth on these principled stances about how freedom of speech is some holy thing that should be protected at all costs no matter how much damage it causes. That notion is absurd in my experience. This philosophical ideal of true freedom of speech doesn't even exist! 4Chan still has to censor child porn - and thanks God! Child pornography is horrible and no one should ever be able to hide behind the guise of "free speech" to get away with dissemination of it. You know what else is horrible? A huge population of people were tortured, starved and gassed to death with numbers in the millions. But do you know what happened after that ended? People tried to pretend it didn't happen at all. And they still are. Now, I'm not Jewish, but just thinking about that makes me sick. The idea that someone is out there gaslighting people into believing the holocaust doesn't exist is despicable. If you proposed holocaust denial on this website you'd be in violation of its rules and be flagged or banned. The site is better because of these rules. And finally, I'd like to pose a thought experiment - If Hitler were alive today, how do you think he would gain power? Misinformation campaigns, appeals to white nationalism and racist dog whistles on one of the major social networks no doubt. Of course, Facebook, Google, Twitter etc. are dealing with a very similar scenario right now with Donald Trump who has intentionally divided this country to its breaking point all while likely (indirectly) killing thousands of people by sending them confusing and false messaging about the coronavirus and don't let me forget he's literally stated his intent to steal the election if he loses. You know, basically just textbook fascism. Ban them. All of them. Today. Edit: Made things sightly less emotionally charged and rage-baiting. Apologies for the harsh (er) words. I understand it's not in the spirit of the discourse we want to encourage here.

Zpalmtree 6y ago
Donald Trump is Literally Hitler and we should take away freedom of speech from all his supporters!
tomp 6y ago
> Holocaust Deniers are pieces of shit. Full stop. A decent society considers even pieces of shit worthy of human dignity.
- ShamelessC 6y ago
  And does your unclear definition of a "decent society" and "human dignity" imply that yelling fire in a theatre (or denying the holocaust) is acceptable behavior? I mean, we both just called them pieces of shit. My version of the word "dignity" generally precludes people who have shown they have no dignity. At any rate, I suspect you wrote this particular argument because it lacks nuance, appeals to our sense of decency and is emotionally appealing to those who already hold the viewpoint. Were you trying to change my mind? Or just trying to find out how many people agree with you?
malwrar 6y ago
It is amusing that you propose the vigorous use of force (“Ban Them. All of them. Today”) to eliminate voices you deem fascist. If you feel this strongly about the harm of holocaust denial, have you considered working to convince people the holocaust did in fact happen? It’s pretty easy—-plenty of evidence exists to suggest it happened and all attempts I’ve encountered of people make a case otherwise have been debunked. I guess it’s not worth the effort to actually talk to people though, easier to just convince someone they’re wrong by threat of force.
- TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
  To be fair, social media does facilitate both social contagion and echo chamber formation, the combination of which can form very fastidious communities. Its not a simple issue, but I don't think putting this power in the hands of a few for-profit corporations is the right solution.