6 ms·

I don't get all the hate for win10 -- I love *nix from a the pov of a clear, orthogonal internal design (at least from 10k feet) and it doesn't make since to de

I don't get all the hate for win10 -- I love *nix from a the pov of a clear, orthogonal internal design (at least from 10k feet) and it doesn't make since to deploy at scale on Win (unless you really need to) -- but why would I ever want to spend time dealing with all the configuration idiosyncrasies and driver issues on a day-to-day basis, if what I'm using a OS for is to host browsers, editors, IDEs, terminal windows, etc., and productivity apps? Okay, win8 was DoA, but win10 seems pretty unoffensive FWICT. I just want to pick up my machine (and just as importantly, someone else's random machine) and have it just work as I expect.

subsection1h 6y ago
"Driver issues on day-to-day basis"? WTF. Maybe you need this: https://www.amazon.com/Linux-Dummies-Richard-Blum/dp/1119704251 https://www.amazon.com/Linux-Dummies-Richard-Blum/dp/1119704...
- thelazydogsback 6y ago
  Perhaps -- and if I do, I think you've just underscored my point. If someone who started programming the same decade Unix was invented doesn't want to be his own sysadmin, why would most people?
  - julianmarq 6y ago
    You're right, you don't need "linux for dummies" (don't even understand the point of linking to that), you're probably better off sticking with windows. For what it's worth, though, I haven't been "my own sysadmin" nor have I had to "spend time dealing with all the configuration idiosyncrasies and driver issues on a day-to-day basis" in linux for the past six years. In fact, I don't even install extensions anymore. My secret ain't manuals, though, it's the much simpler "only buy machines that the vendors declare as compatible with linux" or the even simpler "buy machines with linux installed already". Though I only use my computer for browsers, editors, IDEs, terminal windows, and productivity apps; and pretty much nothing else, so experience may vary of course.
- ThrowawayR2 6y ago
  > "<Link to a page for 'Linux For Dummies'>" Personal attacks are against the HN guidelines. You've been around here long enough that you should know that.
  - chungy 6y ago
    The "For Dummies" brand has been around for decades for self-learning various topics. Linux For Dummies has been around since at least 1997 (first time I saw a copy of it). It probably wouldn't be my pick as a first resource, but it's no less valid of one. I wouldn't classify a recommendation as a personal attack.
  - rnd0 6y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_Dummies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_Dummies
hunterloftis 6y ago
I run Win10 for my personal dev machine. High performance on commodity hardware, without the Apple pricetag or Linux config headaches (particularly caused by GPUs in both instances). It has WSL for a terminal and Docker for projects with environmental assumptions (node, postgres, etc). It's not without quirks, but for me, it matches the productivity of OSX and Ubuntu while opening up possibilities they lack (like straightforward gaming, game/VR development, building the machine into a desk so it's invisible in my office).
- GordonS 6y ago
  I feel the same, but actually far prefer Windows 10 to MacOS (I've been a Windows user far longer than a MacOS user tho). For server, I'm all-in on Linux - it's the perfect server OS. But for desktop, I reckon Windows 10 is the best desktop OS by a stretch, and everything "just works" - whereas even on MacOS I have constant issues with multiple monitor and hi-DPI support, never mind Linux. I prefer bash to the Windows command prompt or Powershell, and Git Bash fulfils pretty much all of my needs there. Otherwise I have WSL available. For backend services used during development (postgres, rabbitmq, redis, whatever), there is Docker Desktop, which was a bit dodgy in the early years, but has worked marvellously for a long time now. TBH, I'm struggling to think of anything Linux or MacOS has that Windows 10 doesn't...
  - hunterloftis 6y ago
    > TBH, I'm struggling to think of anything Linux or MacOS has that Windows 10 doesn't... The issues that still bug me are: 1. Less-useful keyboard navigation (I use Autohotkey to mitigate this) 2. Frustrating file system (I use WSL to `rm -rf` sometimes when Windows refuses to let me delete a file or folder) 3. Less coherent / polished app ecosystem (Linux distros use real package managers and OSX apps tend to be higher quality; Windows is a crapshoot)
    - GordonS 6y ago
      1. TBH this isn't an issue for me. I'd argue any real problems with keyboard nav are application-specific 2. OK, this does bite me rarely, where I can't delete a folder because of messed up permissions. Probably last time was a couple of years back 3. I disagree about the app ecosystem, but fully agree about package managers. The Windows installer system is horrible - I'd rather grate my face than have to build another MSI package...
InitialLastName 6y ago
I do like that most linux flavors I've used only have one settings menu per category, instead of [Number of windows UI revisions] menus per category.
LockAndLol 6y ago
> dealing with all the configuration idiosyncrasies and driver issues on a day-to-day basis You mean on Windows? The only driver issues I've had on linux were NVIDIA (fuck you NVIDIA) and (for a short time) AMD during their transition from driver in a package to driver in the kernel. That's it in a whole decade. Hunting down drivers for windows was way more annoying.
mixmastamyk 6y ago
> why would I ever want to spend time dealing with all the configuration idiosyncrasies and driver issues on a day-to-day basis Been using Ubuntu Mate and stock before that for ten years+, and have not had any such issues. I am on a supported Dell however.
brnt 6y ago
Rumours of Linux' config hassles are greatly exaggerated. Use Ubuntu, Linux' Windows, and it. just. works. Even nvidia GPUs don't require you to install anything, let alone build or configure. The last time I ran into trouble, must've been the mid-aughts. What I do see is techies confusing cutting edge distros such as Arch for 'Linux'. When you're running Windows, you're not using an internal MS build either, so that's the wrong comparison (which I see made often the techier people are). The proper comparison is Ubuntu LTS and Ubuntu LTS only.

subsection1h 6y ago

"Driver issues on day-to-day basis"? WTF. Maybe you need this: https://www.amazon.com/Linux-Dummies-Richard-Blum/dp/1119704251 https://www.amazon.com/Linux-Dummies-Richard-Blum/dp/1119704...

thelazydogsback 6y ago
Perhaps -- and if I do, I think you've just underscored my point. If someone who started programming the same decade Unix was invented doesn't want to be his own sysadmin, why would most people?
- julianmarq 6y ago
  You're right, you don't need "linux for dummies" (don't even understand the point of linking to that), you're probably better off sticking with windows. For what it's worth, though, I haven't been "my own sysadmin" nor have I had to "spend time dealing with all the configuration idiosyncrasies and driver issues on a day-to-day basis" in linux for the past six years. In fact, I don't even install extensions anymore. My secret ain't manuals, though, it's the much simpler "only buy machines that the vendors declare as compatible with linux" or the even simpler "buy machines with linux installed already". Though I only use my computer for browsers, editors, IDEs, terminal windows, and productivity apps; and pretty much nothing else, so experience may vary of course.
ThrowawayR2 6y ago
> "<Link to a page for 'Linux For Dummies'>" Personal attacks are against the HN guidelines. You've been around here long enough that you should know that.
- chungy 6y ago
  The "For Dummies" brand has been around for decades for self-learning various topics. Linux For Dummies has been around since at least 1997 (first time I saw a copy of it). It probably wouldn't be my pick as a first resource, but it's no less valid of one. I wouldn't classify a recommendation as a personal attack.
- rnd0 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_Dummies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_Dummies

hunterloftis 6y ago

I run Win10 for my personal dev machine. High performance on commodity hardware, without the Apple pricetag or Linux config headaches (particularly caused by GPUs in both instances). It has WSL for a terminal and Docker for projects with environmental assumptions (node, postgres, etc). It's not without quirks, but for me, it matches the productivity of OSX and Ubuntu while opening up possibilities they lack (like straightforward gaming, game/VR development, building the machine into a desk so it's invisible in my office).

GordonS 6y ago
I feel the same, but actually far prefer Windows 10 to MacOS (I've been a Windows user far longer than a MacOS user tho). For server, I'm all-in on Linux - it's the perfect server OS. But for desktop, I reckon Windows 10 is the best desktop OS by a stretch, and everything "just works" - whereas even on MacOS I have constant issues with multiple monitor and hi-DPI support, never mind Linux. I prefer bash to the Windows command prompt or Powershell, and Git Bash fulfils pretty much all of my needs there. Otherwise I have WSL available. For backend services used during development (postgres, rabbitmq, redis, whatever), there is Docker Desktop, which was a bit dodgy in the early years, but has worked marvellously for a long time now. TBH, I'm struggling to think of anything Linux or MacOS has that Windows 10 doesn't...
- hunterloftis 6y ago
  > TBH, I'm struggling to think of anything Linux or MacOS has that Windows 10 doesn't... The issues that still bug me are: 1. Less-useful keyboard navigation (I use Autohotkey to mitigate this) 2. Frustrating file system (I use WSL to `rm -rf` sometimes when Windows refuses to let me delete a file or folder) 3. Less coherent / polished app ecosystem (Linux distros use real package managers and OSX apps tend to be higher quality; Windows is a crapshoot)
  - GordonS 6y ago
    1. TBH this isn't an issue for me. I'd argue any real problems with keyboard nav are application-specific 2. OK, this does bite me rarely, where I can't delete a folder because of messed up permissions. Probably last time was a couple of years back 3. I disagree about the app ecosystem, but fully agree about package managers. The Windows installer system is horrible - I'd rather grate my face than have to build another MSI package...

InitialLastName 6y ago

I do like that most linux flavors I've used only have one settings menu per category, instead of [Number of windows UI revisions] menus per category.

LockAndLol 6y ago

> dealing with all the configuration idiosyncrasies and driver issues on a day-to-day basis You mean on Windows? The only driver issues I've had on linux were NVIDIA (fuck you NVIDIA) and (for a short time) AMD during their transition from driver in a package to driver in the kernel. That's it in a whole decade. Hunting down drivers for windows was way more annoying.

mixmastamyk 6y ago

> why would I ever want to spend time dealing with all the configuration idiosyncrasies and driver issues on a day-to-day basis Been using Ubuntu Mate and stock before that for ten years+, and have not had any such issues. I am on a supported Dell however.

brnt 6y ago

Rumours of Linux' config hassles are greatly exaggerated. Use Ubuntu, Linux' Windows, and it. just. works. Even nvidia GPUs don't require you to install anything, let alone build or configure. The last time I ran into trouble, must've been the mid-aughts. What I do see is techies confusing cutting edge distros such as Arch for 'Linux'. When you're running Windows, you're not using an internal MS build either, so that's the wrong comparison (which I see made often the techier people are). The proper comparison is Ubuntu LTS and Ubuntu LTS only.