4 ms·

OK, but you can't really argue your way around: > This amounts to nearly half a million people sitting in jail each day, despite being presumed innocent under

OK, but you can't really argue your way around: > This amounts to nearly half a million people sitting in jail each day, despite being presumed innocent under the law

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
> This amounts to nearly half a million people sitting in jail each day, despite being presumed innocent under the law Ok, but it's not the same half million on any given day. A huge number of those people got picked up the night before and will be out (on bail or otherwise) by the end of the business day. Incarcerating people is expensive. Even if getting them out doesn't involve the state getting an interest free loan the state still has an incentive to get them out. In functional jurisdictions the turnover is high. I know that there's a litany of exceptions for the authoritarian (and therefore more inclined to lock people up for no good reason) and well moneyed (and have the money to do it) jurisdictions in the Boston-DC corridor (and please nobody construe this as me giving the Southeast or west coast a pass, they suck too but do it differently) but the underlying problem there is societal. If you reform bail the well moneyed authoritarian jurisdictions are still well moneyed and still authoritarians and will simply spend that money using the system to screw people some other way.
- ColoradoDev 6y ago
  >A huge number of those people got picked up the night before and will be out (on bail or otherwise) by the end of the business day. Interesting. I'm curious to see the statistics you are pulling. Do you mind sharing a link?
- kwhitefoot 6y ago
  That's more than one in a thousand people. Is that reasonable? It seems rather high to me. Is it a consequence of the judicial system or of high levels of crime, or what? And how does it compare with other countries? Can anyone provide statistics and plausible explanations?
abstractbarista 6y ago
I'm rather OK with that.
- jstanley 6y ago
  Why?
ldoughty 6y ago
If you take a drunk driver to jail to wait out the night.. or a teen caught in a liquor store with a broken window at 3am... Or you pick up a domestic abuser and take them to jail to get them away from their victim while collecting evidence and statements... Those are all people that are presumed innocent under the law... They may spend only minutes or hours in jail as police gather and verify their information... Run their prints to see if their given name is false and their a criminal with a warrant for their arrest... Etc.... So the commenter saying the stats might be misleading is very accurate ... Jails have revolving doors, and that's probably a good thing. It would also be a good thing to eliminate cash bond, without changing jails otherwise -- because jails serve a very real and practical benefit to society for less-than-a-day holding off individuals while their identity is verified and their information/case is reviewed to determine if a bond of any kind will be even offered.
- jstanley 6y ago
  Well we are given the statistic that half a million people are in jail each day. The US population is about 330 million, so if what you are saying is accurate, the mean person can expect to go to jail once every 660 days. Does that sound reasonable? If that seems like an unreasonable proportion of your time to be spending in jail, it's probably also an unreasonable proportion of the population to be keeping in jail.
- nobody9999 6y ago
  >Those are all people that are presumed innocent under the law... They may spend only minutes or hours in jail as police gather and verify their information... Run their prints to see if their given name is false and their a criminal with a warrant for their arrest... Etc.... They may. But we're talking about those in pretrial detention, which excludes all the folks you're talking about. And the average length of pretrial detention is 50-200 days. Would you be able to keep your job, pay your rent/mortgage and care for your children if you were sitting in jail for 3-6 months?

OK, but you can't really argue your way around: > This amounts to nearly half a million people sitting in jail each day, despite being presumed innocent under the law

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

> This amounts to nearly half a million people sitting in jail each day, despite being presumed innocent under the law Ok, but it's not the same half million on any given day. A huge number of those people got picked up the night before and will be out (on bail or otherwise) by the end of the business day. Incarcerating people is expensive. Even if getting them out doesn't involve the state getting an interest free loan the state still has an incentive to get them out. In functional jurisdictions the turnover is high. I know that there's a litany of exceptions for the authoritarian (and therefore more inclined to lock people up for no good reason) and well moneyed (and have the money to do it) jurisdictions in the Boston-DC corridor (and please nobody construe this as me giving the Southeast or west coast a pass, they suck too but do it differently) but the underlying problem there is societal. If you reform bail the well moneyed authoritarian jurisdictions are still well moneyed and still authoritarians and will simply spend that money using the system to screw people some other way.

ColoradoDev 6y ago
>A huge number of those people got picked up the night before and will be out (on bail or otherwise) by the end of the business day. Interesting. I'm curious to see the statistics you are pulling. Do you mind sharing a link?
kwhitefoot 6y ago
That's more than one in a thousand people. Is that reasonable? It seems rather high to me. Is it a consequence of the judicial system or of high levels of crime, or what? And how does it compare with other countries? Can anyone provide statistics and plausible explanations?

abstractbarista 6y ago

I'm rather OK with that.

jstanley 6y ago
Why?

ldoughty 6y ago

If you take a drunk driver to jail to wait out the night.. or a teen caught in a liquor store with a broken window at 3am... Or you pick up a domestic abuser and take them to jail to get them away from their victim while collecting evidence and statements... Those are all people that are presumed innocent under the law... They may spend only minutes or hours in jail as police gather and verify their information... Run their prints to see if their given name is false and their a criminal with a warrant for their arrest... Etc.... So the commenter saying the stats might be misleading is very accurate ... Jails have revolving doors, and that's probably a good thing. It would also be a good thing to eliminate cash bond, without changing jails otherwise -- because jails serve a very real and practical benefit to society for less-than-a-day holding off individuals while their identity is verified and their information/case is reviewed to determine if a bond of any kind will be even offered.

jstanley 6y ago
Well we are given the statistic that half a million people are in jail each day. The US population is about 330 million, so if what you are saying is accurate, the mean person can expect to go to jail once every 660 days. Does that sound reasonable? If that seems like an unreasonable proportion of your time to be spending in jail, it's probably also an unreasonable proportion of the population to be keeping in jail.
nobody9999 6y ago
>Those are all people that are presumed innocent under the law... They may spend only minutes or hours in jail as police gather and verify their information... Run their prints to see if their given name is false and their a criminal with a warrant for their arrest... Etc.... They may. But we're talking about those in pretrial detention, which excludes all the folks you're talking about. And the average length of pretrial detention is 50-200 days. Would you be able to keep your job, pay your rent/mortgage and care for your children if you were sitting in jail for 3-6 months?