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> - Wholesale electricity prices in Poland are actually higher than in e.g. Germany. Wholesale prices in Germany are anything but stable. We have often times w

> - Wholesale electricity prices in Poland are actually higher than in e.g. Germany. Wholesale prices in Germany are anything but stable. We have often times where the price is negative and on the other hand sometimes exceeds hundreds of Euros per MWh. Germany has allegedly 50% renewables in their electricity mix, yet they have one of the highest specific CO2 emissions per kWh in Europe, plus the highest prices. If you want a positive example, you have to use France. For comparison: - France: 17 Cents per kWh, 50 grams CO2 per kWh on average - Germany: 31 Cents per kWh, 401 grams per kWh on average Also, the wholesale electricity price is irrelevant to the customer, especially in Germany where renewables receive a guaranteed price per kWh, _independent_ of the current wholesale price which is why our electricity bills are so high. Germany is currently planning and building 16 gas plants and even two coal plants, so you shouldn’t take Germany as a positive example for decarbonizing the electricity sector. We aren’t. I’m very glad Poland and the Netherlands are actually planning to build nuclear power plants.

JosephRedfern 6y ago
Some providers (I'm thinking of Octopus in the UK) offer tariffs which are closely linked to wholesale costs. Their "Agile Octopus" tariff has 30-minute pricing windows, estimated the previous day. Electricity is cheap in the early hours where there's a surplus, and expensive at dinner time. Idea being you can charge your EV and do your tumble-drying at the cheapest possible time. There has been negative unit pricing in the past, when generation has far exceeded demand (i.e. early hours of the morning on a windy day). More info here: https://octopus.energy/agile/ https://octopus.energy/agile/
- londons_explore 6y ago
  > estimated the previous day Real time pricing sounds great, but all the supply and demand effects economists love go away when you delay pricing effects by a day... Why do that?
  - JosephRedfern 6y ago
    I don't disagree that it has downsides, but for your average consumer, having that advance notice is probably quite useful/reassuring when it comes to scheduling car charges and other essentials.
Tade0 6y ago
Wholesale prices in Poland fluctuate as well, but they're still higher at any given point in time. And wholesale prices matter to investors - recently we had a large coal project shut down because with the added cost of CO2 credits the LCoE was simply too high, so nobody was willing to finance it. you shouldn’t take Germany as a positive example for decarbonizing the electricity sector. We aren’t. I'm not, because the UK with its shift from coal to gas+wind and increases in energy efficiency is a much better one. And also a great example how nowadays nuclear means mostly cost and time overruns. Meanwhile France is operating on a aging fleet of nuclear reactors(35 years old on average), which hasn't increased in capacity for 20 years now. I'm not sure what's their plan when they will be forced to phase out some of the older units. I’m very glad Poland and the Netherlands are actually planning to build nuclear power plants. Well it's not going to happen here because these plans were a vessel for corruption from the get go. On the other hand solar is growing because it's cheap and with two-way metering coupled with incentives homeowners have all the incentive they need to set up their own installations.
- krasi0 6y ago
  How well does solar work in Poland? I mean given that the country is so far north. I would expect wind power generation to be more suitable, especially close to the sea shore.
  - Tade0 6y ago
    Wind was growing sharply before the current administration axed it. It's still the leading renewable energy source here though - both in capacity and GWh delivered. Recently various cronies came out of the woodwork, so there's a chance we will have some weirdly expensive (even for this source) offshore farms. But it's likely that some of our national parks will be turned into biomass for coal plants sooner - that's something currently in the works at least.

JosephRedfern 6y ago

Some providers (I'm thinking of Octopus in the UK) offer tariffs which are closely linked to wholesale costs. Their "Agile Octopus" tariff has 30-minute pricing windows, estimated the previous day. Electricity is cheap in the early hours where there's a surplus, and expensive at dinner time. Idea being you can charge your EV and do your tumble-drying at the cheapest possible time. There has been negative unit pricing in the past, when generation has far exceeded demand (i.e. early hours of the morning on a windy day). More info here: https://octopus.energy/agile/ https://octopus.energy/agile/

londons_explore 6y ago
> estimated the previous day Real time pricing sounds great, but all the supply and demand effects economists love go away when you delay pricing effects by a day... Why do that?
- JosephRedfern 6y ago
  I don't disagree that it has downsides, but for your average consumer, having that advance notice is probably quite useful/reassuring when it comes to scheduling car charges and other essentials.

Tade0 6y ago

Wholesale prices in Poland fluctuate as well, but they're still higher at any given point in time. And wholesale prices matter to investors - recently we had a large coal project shut down because with the added cost of CO2 credits the LCoE was simply too high, so nobody was willing to finance it. you shouldn’t take Germany as a positive example for decarbonizing the electricity sector. We aren’t. I'm not, because the UK with its shift from coal to gas+wind and increases in energy efficiency is a much better one. And also a great example how nowadays nuclear means mostly cost and time overruns. Meanwhile France is operating on a aging fleet of nuclear reactors(35 years old on average), which hasn't increased in capacity for 20 years now. I'm not sure what's their plan when they will be forced to phase out some of the older units. I’m very glad Poland and the Netherlands are actually planning to build nuclear power plants. Well it's not going to happen here because these plans were a vessel for corruption from the get go. On the other hand solar is growing because it's cheap and with two-way metering coupled with incentives homeowners have all the incentive they need to set up their own installations.

krasi0 6y ago
How well does solar work in Poland? I mean given that the country is so far north. I would expect wind power generation to be more suitable, especially close to the sea shore.
- Tade0 6y ago
  Wind was growing sharply before the current administration axed it. It's still the leading renewable energy source here though - both in capacity and GWh delivered. Recently various cronies came out of the woodwork, so there's a chance we will have some weirdly expensive (even for this source) offshore farms. But it's likely that some of our national parks will be turned into biomass for coal plants sooner - that's something currently in the works at least.