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> I think that's misleading then, because when I buy a GPU, they make me believe I own it, when, apparently, in reality I don't. If you buy a GPU you own it an

> I think that's misleading then, because when I buy a GPU, they make me believe I own it, when, apparently, in reality I don't. If you buy a GPU you own it and the copy of the software it came with. You are free to use that combination as you choose, forever. It’s not renting because you don’t have to pay rent to continue to use it. There may be software license restrictions, typically against modifying or reverse-engineering the software, However, it is an error to say that those license restrictions convert your ownership into anything like a rental agreement. Some digital activists say that we don’t really own the devices that we buy because of license restrictions or restricted device firmware. It’s hyperbole. We do own our devices and the copies of the software they came with, even if they came with artificial limitations.

ClumsyPilot 6y ago
Lets test this idea of ownership: My phone auto-updates, and the manufacturer prevents me from reverting updates. One update has removed my ability to record my calls. Does that sound like ownership? Can BMW employee pop over to your garage one day remove some bits of the car he thinks you shouldn't have any more?
- bdowling 6y ago
  The problem of features being changed or removed by a software update is real and the owner can be harmed, as you were. As the owner, however, if you are harmed in that way then you may have a claim against the manufacturer. For example, in a recent class action case by PlayStation 3 owners against Sony over the removal of the Linux OS feature, the court seemed to agree that owners were entitled to damages because Sony ended up paying millions of dollars to class members in a settlement. If you or the PlayStation 3 owners were not owners, then you wouldn’t have a good claim.
  - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
    By the sounds of it playstation 'owners' were paid compensation, but could not get the Linux feature back, in other words they were not made whole. They don't control what is happening to their properly, and without Sony's agreement they cannot repair damage done by sony to it. That does not sound like ownership to me - again, think back to car ownership. Firstly tampering with your car would have been criminal damage. Secondly, BMW does not get a say in how you use your car. They can't stop you going over the speed limit. You could get your car fixed without having to involve BMW or going to court to force their hand. In my view this Sony case looks like compensation for breach of a lease-like contract.
    - bdowling 6y ago
      > By the sounds of it playstation 'owners' were paid compensation, but could not get the Linux feature back, in other words they were not made whole. Members of the class could opt out of the settlement and sue Sony individually. A court could theoretically enjoin Sony to restore the feature for those individual plaintiffs, but the plaintiffs would have to show that monetary damages would be insufficient. Generally courts don’t like to force defendants to do things when paying money would be an acceptable outcome. > In my view this Sony case looks like compensation for breach of a lease-like contract. I haven’t read the complaint in that case but the plaintiffs probably alleged a breach of the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing. So, yes, possibly a breach of contract claim but not a lease. (Note: A lease is a specific form of contract in which a lessor transfers possession of property to a lessee, but retains a future interest in the property after the contract term ends.)
qayxc 6y ago
Your idea of ownership is way too primitive and doesn't reflect reality. You do NOT own the software that comes with your GPU! Ownership implies the ability to transfer, modify, and resell, none of which are within the rights granted by the license of said software. It's not "rental" either - it's licensing. You don't have to become a lawyer, but knowing and understanding the difference between proprietorship (ownership) and possession is a good start. Same goes for renting vs. licensing vs. ownership. TL;DR you do not have ownership of any software that came with any device you bought and it's not hyperbole at all.
- bdowling 6y ago
  > You do NOT own the software that comes with your GPU! When you purchase a consumer GPU that comes with software, you acquire the GPU, the copy of the software it came with, and a license to use the software subject to particular terms and conditions. That is what you own, no more, no less.

ClumsyPilot 6y ago

Lets test this idea of ownership: My phone auto-updates, and the manufacturer prevents me from reverting updates. One update has removed my ability to record my calls. Does that sound like ownership? Can BMW employee pop over to your garage one day remove some bits of the car he thinks you shouldn't have any more?

bdowling 6y ago
The problem of features being changed or removed by a software update is real and the owner can be harmed, as you were. As the owner, however, if you are harmed in that way then you may have a claim against the manufacturer. For example, in a recent class action case by PlayStation 3 owners against Sony over the removal of the Linux OS feature, the court seemed to agree that owners were entitled to damages because Sony ended up paying millions of dollars to class members in a settlement. If you or the PlayStation 3 owners were not owners, then you wouldn’t have a good claim.
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  By the sounds of it playstation 'owners' were paid compensation, but could not get the Linux feature back, in other words they were not made whole. They don't control what is happening to their properly, and without Sony's agreement they cannot repair damage done by sony to it. That does not sound like ownership to me - again, think back to car ownership. Firstly tampering with your car would have been criminal damage. Secondly, BMW does not get a say in how you use your car. They can't stop you going over the speed limit. You could get your car fixed without having to involve BMW or going to court to force their hand. In my view this Sony case looks like compensation for breach of a lease-like contract.
  - bdowling 6y ago
    > By the sounds of it playstation 'owners' were paid compensation, but could not get the Linux feature back, in other words they were not made whole. Members of the class could opt out of the settlement and sue Sony individually. A court could theoretically enjoin Sony to restore the feature for those individual plaintiffs, but the plaintiffs would have to show that monetary damages would be insufficient. Generally courts don’t like to force defendants to do things when paying money would be an acceptable outcome. > In my view this Sony case looks like compensation for breach of a lease-like contract. I haven’t read the complaint in that case but the plaintiffs probably alleged a breach of the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing. So, yes, possibly a breach of contract claim but not a lease. (Note: A lease is a specific form of contract in which a lessor transfers possession of property to a lessee, but retains a future interest in the property after the contract term ends.)

qayxc 6y ago

Your idea of ownership is way too primitive and doesn't reflect reality. You do NOT own the software that comes with your GPU! Ownership implies the ability to transfer, modify, and resell, none of which are within the rights granted by the license of said software. It's not "rental" either - it's licensing. You don't have to become a lawyer, but knowing and understanding the difference between proprietorship (ownership) and possession is a good start. Same goes for renting vs. licensing vs. ownership. TL;DR you do not have ownership of any software that came with any device you bought and it's not hyperbole at all.

bdowling 6y ago
> You do NOT own the software that comes with your GPU! When you purchase a consumer GPU that comes with software, you acquire the GPU, the copy of the software it came with, and a license to use the software subject to particular terms and conditions. That is what you own, no more, no less.