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I found this map very helpful in internet disputes about electricity sources in my country(Poland), because it shows some lesser known facts like: - We import

by Tade0 6y ago

I found this map very helpful in internet disputes about electricity sources in my country(Poland), because it shows some lesser known facts like: - We import electricity at an average rate of 1.2GW - mostly from Germany and Sweden - and this number keeps growing. - Not 95% of our electricity comes from coal(as it's often assumed here), but 75% at most. - Wholesale electricity prices in Poland are actually higher than in e.g. Germany. - Solar reached a point where it registers in the mix - single digit percentages so far, but capacity is growing sharply.

fyfy18 6y ago
As your neighbour (Lithuania), I'd also like to point out your air pollution affects us a lot. Our air quality is a lot worse on days when there is a south west wind blowing. Now of course not all of that is from burning coal for electricity (Poland had a lot of manufacturing and heavy industry), but if you were to decarbonise in general it would make a big difference to us :-) From next year, all new homes here are required to generate most of their electricity from renewable sources, so we should start to see a big uptake in solar. I think this comes from EU regulations to decarbonise housing, so maybe there is something similar in Poland?
- Tade0 6y ago
  Oh, I'm painfully aware of that having recently invested in an air purifier - it's a necessity around here. Unfortunately this pollution comes mostly from heating and trust me - I wish it was coal these people were burning. To put this into perspective: last year I was celebrating new year's eve in eastern Poland and met a shopkeeper who was complaining that he can't take wood from a local national reserve. So yeah - sorry about that. A large part of our society is focused mostly on their own convenience.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    It seems like you’re saying that people are burning wood. It’s worth pointing out that wood burning stoves are not all the same. Here in America our environmental agency (EPA) has mandated that all new wood burning stoves meet their new standards for emissions. The result is that a new wood burning stove can produce as little as 1/15th the emissions of what a traditional wood fireplace would emit. For the 2020 models, a wood burning stove should release less particulate than a car without a catalytic converter, while a regular fireplace is roughly as bad as an old diesel truck. It’s still nowhere as clean as even natural gas, but even without switching fuel sources you can do a lot to make wood burn cleaner.
    - Tade0 6y ago
      It seems like you’re saying that people are burning wood. I wish they were. Wood was probably just a part of that gentleman's own "energy mix", consisting mostly of culm(coal dust), trash, coal and wood. Recently coal dust for heating purposes was outlawed, along with stoves not meeting a certain standard of emissions, but that didn't stop retailers from offering products which were not up to those standards. Anyway the main issue still appears to be awareness, as many people who could easily afford to use gas for heating still choose to pollute, because it's cheap and convenient.
      - ashtonkem 6y ago
        Yikes. That is a frightening mix of fuel, I’d rather that everyone ran diesel generators, and that’s saying a lot.
cbmuser 6y ago
> - Wholesale electricity prices in Poland are actually higher than in e.g. Germany. Wholesale prices in Germany are anything but stable. We have often times where the price is negative and on the other hand sometimes exceeds hundreds of Euros per MWh. Germany has allegedly 50% renewables in their electricity mix, yet they have one of the highest specific CO2 emissions per kWh in Europe, plus the highest prices. If you want a positive example, you have to use France. For comparison: - France: 17 Cents per kWh, 50 grams CO2 per kWh on average - Germany: 31 Cents per kWh, 401 grams per kWh on average Also, the wholesale electricity price is irrelevant to the customer, especially in Germany where renewables receive a guaranteed price per kWh, _independent_ of the current wholesale price which is why our electricity bills are so high. Germany is currently planning and building 16 gas plants and even two coal plants, so you shouldn’t take Germany as a positive example for decarbonizing the electricity sector. We aren’t. I’m very glad Poland and the Netherlands are actually planning to build nuclear power plants.
- JosephRedfern 6y ago
  Some providers (I'm thinking of Octopus in the UK) offer tariffs which are closely linked to wholesale costs. Their "Agile Octopus" tariff has 30-minute pricing windows, estimated the previous day. Electricity is cheap in the early hours where there's a surplus, and expensive at dinner time. Idea being you can charge your EV and do your tumble-drying at the cheapest possible time. There has been negative unit pricing in the past, when generation has far exceeded demand (i.e. early hours of the morning on a windy day). More info here: https://octopus.energy/agile/ https://octopus.energy/agile/
  - londons_explore 6y ago
    > estimated the previous day Real time pricing sounds great, but all the supply and demand effects economists love go away when you delay pricing effects by a day... Why do that?
    - JosephRedfern 6y ago
      I don't disagree that it has downsides, but for your average consumer, having that advance notice is probably quite useful/reassuring when it comes to scheduling car charges and other essentials.
gelo 6y ago
Importing almost enough to do time-travel.

by Tade0 6y ago

fyfy18 6y ago

As your neighbour (Lithuania), I'd also like to point out your air pollution affects us a lot. Our air quality is a lot worse on days when there is a south west wind blowing. Now of course not all of that is from burning coal for electricity (Poland had a lot of manufacturing and heavy industry), but if you were to decarbonise in general it would make a big difference to us :-) From next year, all new homes here are required to generate most of their electricity from renewable sources, so we should start to see a big uptake in solar. I think this comes from EU regulations to decarbonise housing, so maybe there is something similar in Poland?

Tade0 6y ago
Oh, I'm painfully aware of that having recently invested in an air purifier - it's a necessity around here. Unfortunately this pollution comes mostly from heating and trust me - I wish it was coal these people were burning. To put this into perspective: last year I was celebrating new year's eve in eastern Poland and met a shopkeeper who was complaining that he can't take wood from a local national reserve. So yeah - sorry about that. A large part of our society is focused mostly on their own convenience.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  It seems like you’re saying that people are burning wood. It’s worth pointing out that wood burning stoves are not all the same. Here in America our environmental agency (EPA) has mandated that all new wood burning stoves meet their new standards for emissions. The result is that a new wood burning stove can produce as little as 1/15th the emissions of what a traditional wood fireplace would emit. For the 2020 models, a wood burning stove should release less particulate than a car without a catalytic converter, while a regular fireplace is roughly as bad as an old diesel truck. It’s still nowhere as clean as even natural gas, but even without switching fuel sources you can do a lot to make wood burn cleaner.
  - Tade0 6y ago
    It seems like you’re saying that people are burning wood. I wish they were. Wood was probably just a part of that gentleman's own "energy mix", consisting mostly of culm(coal dust), trash, coal and wood. Recently coal dust for heating purposes was outlawed, along with stoves not meeting a certain standard of emissions, but that didn't stop retailers from offering products which were not up to those standards. Anyway the main issue still appears to be awareness, as many people who could easily afford to use gas for heating still choose to pollute, because it's cheap and convenient.
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      Yikes. That is a frightening mix of fuel, I’d rather that everyone ran diesel generators, and that’s saying a lot.

cbmuser 6y ago

> - Wholesale electricity prices in Poland are actually higher than in e.g. Germany. Wholesale prices in Germany are anything but stable. We have often times where the price is negative and on the other hand sometimes exceeds hundreds of Euros per MWh. Germany has allegedly 50% renewables in their electricity mix, yet they have one of the highest specific CO2 emissions per kWh in Europe, plus the highest prices. If you want a positive example, you have to use France. For comparison: - France: 17 Cents per kWh, 50 grams CO2 per kWh on average - Germany: 31 Cents per kWh, 401 grams per kWh on average Also, the wholesale electricity price is irrelevant to the customer, especially in Germany where renewables receive a guaranteed price per kWh, _independent_ of the current wholesale price which is why our electricity bills are so high. Germany is currently planning and building 16 gas plants and even two coal plants, so you shouldn’t take Germany as a positive example for decarbonizing the electricity sector. We aren’t. I’m very glad Poland and the Netherlands are actually planning to build nuclear power plants.

JosephRedfern 6y ago
Some providers (I'm thinking of Octopus in the UK) offer tariffs which are closely linked to wholesale costs. Their "Agile Octopus" tariff has 30-minute pricing windows, estimated the previous day. Electricity is cheap in the early hours where there's a surplus, and expensive at dinner time. Idea being you can charge your EV and do your tumble-drying at the cheapest possible time. There has been negative unit pricing in the past, when generation has far exceeded demand (i.e. early hours of the morning on a windy day). More info here: https://octopus.energy/agile/ https://octopus.energy/agile/
- londons_explore 6y ago
  > estimated the previous day Real time pricing sounds great, but all the supply and demand effects economists love go away when you delay pricing effects by a day... Why do that?
  - JosephRedfern 6y ago
    I don't disagree that it has downsides, but for your average consumer, having that advance notice is probably quite useful/reassuring when it comes to scheduling car charges and other essentials.

gelo 6y ago

Importing almost enough to do time-travel.