5 ms·

Good observation. I was curious, and it looks like the parser code to retrieve the data is open source; so here's the relevant module for Australia: https://g

by jka 6y ago

Good observation. I was curious, and it looks like the parser code to retrieve the data is open source; so here's the relevant module for Australia: https://github.com/tmrowco/electricitymap-contrib/blob/24ea22232a43cb54d3733e7c97c281855225efb2/parsers/AU.py https://github.com/tmrowco/electricitymap-contrib/blob/24ea2... The production mix (energy generation by source) source URL is listed on L326. Opening the dataset in LibreOffice Calc, filtering by Region = QLD1, filtering for Current Output > 0, and sorting by Current Output descending does seem to show that the vast bulk of production reported has fuel source descriptor 'Black Coal'. If that's a bug in the reported data or source, hopefully the ElectricityMap team can jump in to take a look. The data initially seems legit, from searching for some of the power stations listed. Edit / addendum: worth searching for Australia in the project's GitHub issues too; there's some existing (although not directly related) investigation & validation work ongoing for that module

ezzaf 6y ago
The problem is in fact with the source file, it lists just two solar power stations but there are at least 30 in Queensland.
- jaimex2 6y ago
  The site is has no idea when it comes to Australia. Queensland generates a ton of solar Victoria uses brown coal which is basically damp coal, its incredibly inefficient compared to black coal used by NSW/Qld Tasmania is basically 100% renewable...
Paddywack 6y ago
Also - home solar penetration in QLD is the highest in Australia. Is that not factored in to the equation? It doesn't look that way given 0% renewables shown.
- X-Cubed 6y ago
  This website is pulling information from public sources, so it can only show public generation & consumption information. If someone is running a grid-tied solar system, outbound energy might be accounted for in these statistics, but it won't show any immediate consumption of that solar generation by the property, nor will it show any battery storage, it's only capable of showing what goes through the energy meter.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    OpenNEM is pulling rooftop solar behind the meter generation data from aggregation sources, I’m unsure if ElectricityMap is also polling this distributed rooftop solar generation data.
  - baskire 6y ago
    +1. California has substantial rooftop solar (11 Gwh peak) behind the meter, which isn’t shown in these graphs. https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2019/04/15/californias-solar-power-record-setting-season-is-here/ https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2019/04/15/californias-solar-pow...
    - westurner 6y ago
      How would behind the meter electricity consumption change the reported amount of CO2 emitted by other electricity production sources?
      - Mvandenbergh 6y ago
        The map is intended to show the emissions intensity of electricity so if you miss a bunch of electricity from distributed generation you will over-estimate the intensity.
        westurner 6y ago
        Man that was a dumb question. Thanks for clarifying. So we'd need electric utility companies to share the live data of how many kwh of solar and wind people are selling back to the grid in order to get an accurate regional comparison of real-time carbon intensity? FWIU, they're already parsing the EIA data; but it's significantly more delayed than the max 2 hour delay specified by ElectricityMap. Here's the parser for the current data from EIA: https://github.com/tmrowco/electricitymap-contrib/blob/master/parsers/EIA.py https://github.com/tmrowco/electricitymap-contrib/blob/maste... Should the EIA (1) source, aggregate, cache, and make more real-time data available; and (2) create a new data item for behind the meter kwh from e.g. residential wind and solar? (Edit) "Does EIA publish data on peak or hourly electricity generation, demand, and prices?" https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=100&t=3 https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=100&t=3 > Hourly Electric Grid Monitor is a redesigned and enhanced version of the U.S. Electric System Operating Data tool. It incorporates two new data elements: hourly electricity generation by types of energy/fuel source and hourly sub-regional demand for certain balancing authorities in the Lower 48 states. > [...] > EIA does not publish hourly electricity price data, but it does publish wholesale electricity market information including daily volumes, high and low prices, and weighted-average prices on a biweekly basis. AFAIU, retail intraday rates aren't yet really a thing in the US; but some countries in Europe do have intraday rates (which create incentives for the grid scale energy storage necessary for wide-scale rollout of renewables). (Edit) "Introduction to the World of Electricity Trading" https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/042115/understanding-world-electricity-trading.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/042115/under... : > Energy prices are influenced by a variety of factors that affect the supply and demand equilibrium. On the demand side, commonly referred to as a load, the main factors are economic activity, weather, and general efficiency of consumption. On the supply side, commonly referred to as generation, fuel prices and availability, construction costs and the fixed costs are the main drivers of the price of energy. There's a number of physical factors between supply and demand that affect the actual clearing price of electricity. Most of these factors are related to the transmission grid, the network of high voltage power lines and substations that ensure the safe and reliable transport of electricity from its generation to its consumption. Which customers (e.g. data centers, mining firms) would take advantage of retail intraday rates? How does cost and availability of storage affect the equilibrium price of electricity?
nl 6y ago
Reneweconomy's widget shows coal being ~3/4 of the current supply, but solar being the majority of the rest. There does seem to be a bug somewhere. http://www.nem-watch.info/widgets/reneweconomy/ http://www.nem-watch.info/widgets/reneweconomy/ Edit: OpenNEM gives figures similar to reneweconomy: https://opennem.org.au/energy/qld1/ https://opennem.org.au/energy/qld1/

by jka 6y ago

ezzaf 6y ago

The problem is in fact with the source file, it lists just two solar power stations but there are at least 30 in Queensland.

jaimex2 6y ago
The site is has no idea when it comes to Australia. Queensland generates a ton of solar Victoria uses brown coal which is basically damp coal, its incredibly inefficient compared to black coal used by NSW/Qld Tasmania is basically 100% renewable...

Paddywack 6y ago

Also - home solar penetration in QLD is the highest in Australia. Is that not factored in to the equation? It doesn't look that way given 0% renewables shown.

X-Cubed 6y ago
This website is pulling information from public sources, so it can only show public generation & consumption information. If someone is running a grid-tied solar system, outbound energy might be accounted for in these statistics, but it won't show any immediate consumption of that solar generation by the property, nor will it show any battery storage, it's only capable of showing what goes through the energy meter.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  OpenNEM is pulling rooftop solar behind the meter generation data from aggregation sources, I’m unsure if ElectricityMap is also polling this distributed rooftop solar generation data.
- baskire 6y ago
  +1. California has substantial rooftop solar (11 Gwh peak) behind the meter, which isn’t shown in these graphs. https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2019/04/15/californias-solar-power-record-setting-season-is-here/ https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2019/04/15/californias-solar-pow...
  - westurner 6y ago
    How would behind the meter electricity consumption change the reported amount of CO2 emitted by other electricity production sources?
    - Mvandenbergh 6y ago
      The map is intended to show the emissions intensity of electricity so if you miss a bunch of electricity from distributed generation you will over-estimate the intensity.
      - westurner 6y ago
        Man that was a dumb question. Thanks for clarifying. So we'd need electric utility companies to share the live data of how many kwh of solar and wind people are selling back to the grid in order to get an accurate regional comparison of real-time carbon intensity? FWIU, they're already parsing the EIA data; but it's significantly more delayed than the max 2 hour delay specified by ElectricityMap. Here's the parser for the current data from EIA: https://github.com/tmrowco/electricitymap-contrib/blob/master/parsers/EIA.py https://github.com/tmrowco/electricitymap-contrib/blob/maste... Should the EIA (1) source, aggregate, cache, and make more real-time data available; and (2) create a new data item for behind the meter kwh from e.g. residential wind and solar? (Edit) "Does EIA publish data on peak or hourly electricity generation, demand, and prices?" https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=100&t=3 https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=100&t=3 > Hourly Electric Grid Monitor is a redesigned and enhanced version of the U.S. Electric System Operating Data tool. It incorporates two new data elements: hourly electricity generation by types of energy/fuel source and hourly sub-regional demand for certain balancing authorities in the Lower 48 states. > [...] > EIA does not publish hourly electricity price data, but it does publish wholesale electricity market information including daily volumes, high and low prices, and weighted-average prices on a biweekly basis. AFAIU, retail intraday rates aren't yet really a thing in the US; but some countries in Europe do have intraday rates (which create incentives for the grid scale energy storage necessary for wide-scale rollout of renewables). (Edit) "Introduction to the World of Electricity Trading" https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/042115/understanding-world-electricity-trading.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/042115/under... : > Energy prices are influenced by a variety of factors that affect the supply and demand equilibrium. On the demand side, commonly referred to as a load, the main factors are economic activity, weather, and general efficiency of consumption. On the supply side, commonly referred to as generation, fuel prices and availability, construction costs and the fixed costs are the main drivers of the price of energy. There's a number of physical factors between supply and demand that affect the actual clearing price of electricity. Most of these factors are related to the transmission grid, the network of high voltage power lines and substations that ensure the safe and reliable transport of electricity from its generation to its consumption. Which customers (e.g. data centers, mining firms) would take advantage of retail intraday rates? How does cost and availability of storage affect the equilibrium price of electricity?

nl 6y ago

Reneweconomy's widget shows coal being ~3/4 of the current supply, but solar being the majority of the rest. There does seem to be a bug somewhere. http://www.nem-watch.info/widgets/reneweconomy/ http://www.nem-watch.info/widgets/reneweconomy/ Edit: OpenNEM gives figures similar to reneweconomy: https://opennem.org.au/energy/qld1/ https://opennem.org.au/energy/qld1/