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Also I find that drivers behave more aggressive towards me precisely after they build a bike lane. Because of course they expect you to use it, that's why the b

Also I find that drivers behave more aggressive towards me precisely after they build a bike lane. Because of course they expect you to use it, that's why the built it, so that you get out of their way.

mytailorisrich 6y ago
All road users should be considerate. If there is a dedicated cycle lane and a cyclist disturbs cars traffic (which bikes usually do simply because they tend to go much slower than cars) by insisting on cycling on the road I can understand that drivers do not appreciate it, though it of course does not excuse dangerous maneuvers.
- dvdkhlng 6y ago
  The problem with this is that car drivers usually just assume that the cyclists could just safely use the bike lane, while in reality many bike-lanes are statistically more dangerous than just driving on the road. In Germany there used to be a a general obligation to use bike-lanes when present, which was overturned by court, because of the safety argument. As a cyclist I'm harassed at least once a weak by drivers who think I should use the non-obligatory bike-lane. This makes it very difficult to consciously chose the safer road instead of the (too narrow, too badly lit, too close to foot-traffic, too damaged, full of glass shards) bike-lane.
  - mytailorisrich 6y ago
    Should the bike lanes be removed, then? I think that the solution, as I mentioned in another comment, is to build 'proper' bike lanes instead of painting a 1m wide corridor on the side of the road and calling that a "bike lane". Obviously this usually can only be done when building a new road.
    - dvdkhlng 6y ago
      > Should the bike lanes be removed, then? Yeah, for Berlin at least it's a very difficult question trying to find out how to move forward from the current half-assed state of affairs. There is some sort of new law/policy that defines how proper bike infrastructure should look like [1] defining minimum width and stating that bike-lines should not be put onto foot-walks. However not many actions where performed based on that law which was also drafted in a way that prevents bringing forward proper legal action when not adhered to. Maybe also something needs to be done WRT driving school, where bike-related issues are not really taught as far as I'm aware of. Most drivers (and maybe most teachers at driving school) still believe that cyclists do not belong onto the road and do not understand how driver behaviour endangers them. Minimum car<->bike overtaking distance (1.5 m) for example is generally ignored by more than half of cars. [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berliner_Mobilit%C3%A4tsgesetz https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berliner_Mobilit%C3%A4tsgesetz
- anonymou2 6y ago
  It is funny, in those places I never got any harassment before. Car drivers never had a problem with me, It seems that I never disturbed the apparently so important car traffic, they just passed and went their way. So what exactly was the purpose of the bike lane? Clearly, to kick me and other cyclists out of the way because they didn't like us. That is just plain discrimination. And I am not saying that I don't facilitate passing when safe for me to do so. I think we cyclists have to do that. But the bike lane is just obnoxious.

mytailorisrich 6y ago

All road users should be considerate. If there is a dedicated cycle lane and a cyclist disturbs cars traffic (which bikes usually do simply because they tend to go much slower than cars) by insisting on cycling on the road I can understand that drivers do not appreciate it, though it of course does not excuse dangerous maneuvers.

dvdkhlng 6y ago
The problem with this is that car drivers usually just assume that the cyclists could just safely use the bike lane, while in reality many bike-lanes are statistically more dangerous than just driving on the road. In Germany there used to be a a general obligation to use bike-lanes when present, which was overturned by court, because of the safety argument. As a cyclist I'm harassed at least once a weak by drivers who think I should use the non-obligatory bike-lane. This makes it very difficult to consciously chose the safer road instead of the (too narrow, too badly lit, too close to foot-traffic, too damaged, full of glass shards) bike-lane.
- mytailorisrich 6y ago
  Should the bike lanes be removed, then? I think that the solution, as I mentioned in another comment, is to build 'proper' bike lanes instead of painting a 1m wide corridor on the side of the road and calling that a "bike lane". Obviously this usually can only be done when building a new road.
  - dvdkhlng 6y ago
    > Should the bike lanes be removed, then? Yeah, for Berlin at least it's a very difficult question trying to find out how to move forward from the current half-assed state of affairs. There is some sort of new law/policy that defines how proper bike infrastructure should look like [1] defining minimum width and stating that bike-lines should not be put onto foot-walks. However not many actions where performed based on that law which was also drafted in a way that prevents bringing forward proper legal action when not adhered to. Maybe also something needs to be done WRT driving school, where bike-related issues are not really taught as far as I'm aware of. Most drivers (and maybe most teachers at driving school) still believe that cyclists do not belong onto the road and do not understand how driver behaviour endangers them. Minimum car<->bike overtaking distance (1.5 m) for example is generally ignored by more than half of cars. [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berliner_Mobilit%C3%A4tsgesetz https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berliner_Mobilit%C3%A4tsgesetz
anonymou2 6y ago
It is funny, in those places I never got any harassment before. Car drivers never had a problem with me, It seems that I never disturbed the apparently so important car traffic, they just passed and went their way. So what exactly was the purpose of the bike lane? Clearly, to kick me and other cyclists out of the way because they didn't like us. That is just plain discrimination. And I am not saying that I don't facilitate passing when safe for me to do so. I think we cyclists have to do that. But the bike lane is just obnoxious.