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Also, it runs afoul of sections of GDPR. I don't agree that Spotify has to let users transfer Spotify curated playlists as that is a business strength. Songshi

Also, it runs afoul of sections of GDPR. I don't agree that Spotify has to let users transfer Spotify curated playlists as that is a business strength. Songshift seems to show Spotify curated playlists on their homepage like Discover Weekly so I can see why Spotify won't like this. But if my understanding of GDPR is right they have to allow users to transfer playlists created by themselves.

tpmx 6y ago
Right. Forgot that. Regarding GDPR and data portability: In practise you can expect to receive a (link to a) zip file via email with a bunch of XML documents after going through a convoluted dance. Also, it often takes some time (days) to receive the data. Basically, nothing that can easily be automated by a third part service - you need user auth of the requesting user to access the data.) "You must comply with a request for data portability without undue delay and at the latest within one month of receipt of the request" I guess it's because data portability isn't trivial, and it was wasn't the key aspect of GDPR. As a contrast: The EU mobile number portability legislation says: max 1 working day.
- actuator 6y ago
  Yeah, data portability is hard to define as a strict standard as it is extremely product specific. Even when we implemented it for my last company, we did JSON exports on signed S3 paths. I thought structured data was the easiest way for any competitor or user to use their data.
  - tpmx 6y ago
    I feel they could have included a clause that would let a designated third party access the extracted data on the requester's behalf in an automated way. I think it could have worked pretty well to keep it as vague as that. (The auth aspects would need more detail, obviously.) I don't think data format fragmentation is a big issue (just implement adapters for the top five competitors in your market...), but rather the impossibility of doing it in a quick and seamless manner on behalf of someone wanting to migrate their data to your service from some other service.
    - actuator 6y ago
      > I feel they could have included a clause that would let a designated third party access the extracted data on the requester's behalf in an automated way. Yeah, this would have been nice. I am not sure if legally you could enforce that as automation itself is vague and depends on the source and target both. > I don't think data format fragmentation is a big issue (just implement adapters for the top five competitors in your market...), but rather the impossibility of doing it in a quick and seamless manner on behalf of someone wanting to migrate their data to your service from some other service. I think if companies were being honest in their efforts for data portability, as a first step they would not try to reap the benefit of the 30 day window by as much as they can. For most, it should take mins or hours to get the export yet the best turnaround I have seen from any service has been from Tinder, it was I think 3 days.
      - watermelon0 6y ago
        This really depends on the service. In my experience, Netflix and Facebook took only a few hours to export the data.
    - sokoloff 6y ago
      > just implement adapters for the top five competitors in your market Is there anything to prevent the export file format from shifting regularly? You know, for ongoing product improvement reasons, naturally.
- iav 6y ago
  Carriers pay to port numbers to a neutral third party that maintains the Number Portability service. In the US, that used to be $6 per number port (which is basically just a DB row update operation) but a new vendor has reduced it by more than half. Carriers view that expense as pocket change as subscriber acquisition cost is well over $100 in total. Without a legislative mandate and a third party integration partner that assures the port is successful, seems unlikely that a market leader like Spotify would ever allow them to exist.
jtbayly 6y ago
Lol. GDPR. That great white knight.
- tpmx 6y ago
  Lol. A jingoist.
  - jtbayly 6y ago
    I’m pretty sure it’s a violation of community standards to use a person’s country of origin as an insult or slur. Are you intentionally trying to denigrate a people group?
    - tpmx 6y ago
      I apologize. I edited the comment accordingly.
      - jtbayly 6y ago
        Lol. Nice. Anyway, let me know when the GDPR actually helps with something instead of just making the internet more of a usability train wreck.
        tpmx 6y ago
        I'm pretty sure it has helped a lot already. The key part is the "the don't keep data around forever just because you can" part. Sure, the GDPR got a bit bloated, but I honestly believe most europeans lives got a little bit better because of it. Edit: I think you're thinking about that horrible cookie warning law. That one needs to burned to the ground.
        yoavm 6y ago
        It's not even just European lives that got better because of GDPR, we're all benefiting from having big companies forced to comply with it. I have used the "Right to erasure" multiple times with American companies just by saying I'm from Europe.
saagarjha 6y ago
Which ones? GDPR guarantees "right to data portability", not "right to an open API". I'm sure they could give you a CSV if you personally write to them and still be compliant.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

tpmx 6y ago

Right. Forgot that. Regarding GDPR and data portability: In practise you can expect to receive a (link to a) zip file via email with a bunch of XML documents after going through a convoluted dance. Also, it often takes some time (days) to receive the data. Basically, nothing that can easily be automated by a third part service - you need user auth of the requesting user to access the data.) "You must comply with a request for data portability without undue delay and at the latest within one month of receipt of the request" I guess it's because data portability isn't trivial, and it was wasn't the key aspect of GDPR. As a contrast: The EU mobile number portability legislation says: max 1 working day.

actuator 6y ago
Yeah, data portability is hard to define as a strict standard as it is extremely product specific. Even when we implemented it for my last company, we did JSON exports on signed S3 paths. I thought structured data was the easiest way for any competitor or user to use their data.
- tpmx 6y ago
  I feel they could have included a clause that would let a designated third party access the extracted data on the requester's behalf in an automated way. I think it could have worked pretty well to keep it as vague as that. (The auth aspects would need more detail, obviously.) I don't think data format fragmentation is a big issue (just implement adapters for the top five competitors in your market...), but rather the impossibility of doing it in a quick and seamless manner on behalf of someone wanting to migrate their data to your service from some other service.
  - actuator 6y ago
    > I feel they could have included a clause that would let a designated third party access the extracted data on the requester's behalf in an automated way. Yeah, this would have been nice. I am not sure if legally you could enforce that as automation itself is vague and depends on the source and target both. > I don't think data format fragmentation is a big issue (just implement adapters for the top five competitors in your market...), but rather the impossibility of doing it in a quick and seamless manner on behalf of someone wanting to migrate their data to your service from some other service. I think if companies were being honest in their efforts for data portability, as a first step they would not try to reap the benefit of the 30 day window by as much as they can. For most, it should take mins or hours to get the export yet the best turnaround I have seen from any service has been from Tinder, it was I think 3 days.
    - watermelon0 6y ago
      This really depends on the service. In my experience, Netflix and Facebook took only a few hours to export the data.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    > just implement adapters for the top five competitors in your market Is there anything to prevent the export file format from shifting regularly? You know, for ongoing product improvement reasons, naturally.
iav 6y ago
Carriers pay to port numbers to a neutral third party that maintains the Number Portability service. In the US, that used to be $6 per number port (which is basically just a DB row update operation) but a new vendor has reduced it by more than half. Carriers view that expense as pocket change as subscriber acquisition cost is well over $100 in total. Without a legislative mandate and a third party integration partner that assures the port is successful, seems unlikely that a market leader like Spotify would ever allow them to exist.

jtbayly 6y ago

Lol. GDPR. That great white knight.

tpmx 6y ago
Lol. A jingoist.
- jtbayly 6y ago
  I’m pretty sure it’s a violation of community standards to use a person’s country of origin as an insult or slur. Are you intentionally trying to denigrate a people group?
  - tpmx 6y ago
    I apologize. I edited the comment accordingly.
    - jtbayly 6y ago
      Lol. Nice. Anyway, let me know when the GDPR actually helps with something instead of just making the internet more of a usability train wreck.
      - tpmx 6y ago
        I'm pretty sure it has helped a lot already. The key part is the "the don't keep data around forever just because you can" part. Sure, the GDPR got a bit bloated, but I honestly believe most europeans lives got a little bit better because of it. Edit: I think you're thinking about that horrible cookie warning law. That one needs to burned to the ground.
        yoavm 6y ago
        It's not even just European lives that got better because of GDPR, we're all benefiting from having big companies forced to comply with it. I have used the "Right to erasure" multiple times with American companies just by saying I'm from Europe.

saagarjha 6y ago

Which ones? GDPR guarantees "right to data portability", not "right to an open API". I'm sure they could give you a CSV if you personally write to them and still be compliant.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]