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I don’t see a problem with cops getting better equipment. I see a problem with cops being untrained to leverage the equipment and understanding which situations

I don’t see a problem with cops getting better equipment. I see a problem with cops being untrained to leverage the equipment and understanding which situations call for it. No knock warrants in swat gear to handle local criminals might be a no no. Can someone please link the bank robbery where some dude showed up in a bullet proof vest and. Ak47, where the cops literally lacked the equipment to handle the perp? https://youtu.be/I_1IvZFwj0M https://youtu.be/I_1IvZFwj0M

nkozyra 6y ago
The problem with "better equipment" is it needs to continuously be justified. That means it needs to be used.
- runawaybottle 6y ago
  Armored and heavily equipped cops are not what’s causing police brutality by and large. It’s your run of the mill guy with a simple handgun racially profiling and using deceptive tactics to drum up charges. We can keep our focus exactly where the issue is (for once we identified it exactly), or we can emotionally extrapolate it into the larger narrative. Armored cops are a much bigger deal in China where the CCP uses them in places like Hong Kong to enact quasi martial law.
  - nkozyra 6y ago
    > Armored and heavily equipped cops are not what’s causing police brutality by and large. I agree with this, but wonder if it's more a law of averages than anything. The guy driving the local PD tank does not have nearly as many interactions as the beat cop or the traffic cop.
- Turing_Machine 6y ago
  The classic example here is Arlo Guthrie's song/story "Alice's Restaurant". For those who haven't heard it, the protagonists are guilty of littering, and the local cops wind up using dogs, tire-track analysis, and even aerial photography to make their case. As the song puts it, "They was usin' up all kinds of cop equipment that they had hangin' around the police officer station". Recommended if you haven't heard it, or even if you haven't heard it for a while.
stfp 6y ago
It's not about training. A chainsaw isn't "better" equipment for surgeons. A tank isn't "better" equipment for police.
eptcyka 6y ago
Under what circumstances would a police department require an armored personnel carrier? Especially in a country that's spanning half a continent, with allies on both sides. And a potentially-soon-to-be has-been world superpower? Even if it turns out to be necessary or practical, it certainly won't be the solution to the problem that necessitates having an APC.
- runawaybottle 6y ago
  A situation where 10 white nationalist militia members kidnap the mayor with stock bumped ar-15s. Or when someone blows the window out of a Casino hotel and lays fire to a festival. Or when the kids go nuts and shoot up the school. I don’t know if you’ve heard, but America has a unique mass shooting issue. Running alongside an APC would at least give you cover in the Vegas shooting. I guess my point is, you cannot demilitarize one side one when the other side already militarized, that ship has sailed in America. Edit: I’m getting downvoted on this, but I’d like to hear some counter points for these exact scenarios that happened (or almost happened) in the last 4 years.
  - Broken_Hippo 6y ago
    99.9% of policing is non-violent, simple things. Just because you can come up with a few exceptions doesn't prove most cops need such things: It more proves that cops might need a special force that can come in if things get bad. I'm not convinced any situation you bring up would have been helped by the immediate availability of gear. Some of these could be better with better training: Some things could be somewhat prevented if we did things like make sure there was mental and physical health care, a safety net so folks didn't get so far down, and had reasonable gun laws. oh, and not have cops posing as oppressors with military equipment. We are the picture of oppression right now, and if it were happening in one of "America's Enemies", we'd bemoan them for not being free enough or use it as the ills of socialism or communism.
    - runawaybottle 6y ago
      The gear is not for 99% of situations. Neither are guns. But we give every single one of them a gun, don’t we? You get the gear so you can handle all possible scenarios. That isn’t the issue. The issue is something else. We can debate the real issue or muddle the pool and avert it. “Dressing up as oppressors” - you know, narrative building has no bounds. This is a new one. That’s all subjective, I don’t see it as oppression theater as you do.

nkozyra 6y ago

The problem with "better equipment" is it needs to continuously be justified. That means it needs to be used.

runawaybottle 6y ago
Armored and heavily equipped cops are not what’s causing police brutality by and large. It’s your run of the mill guy with a simple handgun racially profiling and using deceptive tactics to drum up charges. We can keep our focus exactly where the issue is (for once we identified it exactly), or we can emotionally extrapolate it into the larger narrative. Armored cops are a much bigger deal in China where the CCP uses them in places like Hong Kong to enact quasi martial law.
- nkozyra 6y ago
  > Armored and heavily equipped cops are not what’s causing police brutality by and large. I agree with this, but wonder if it's more a law of averages than anything. The guy driving the local PD tank does not have nearly as many interactions as the beat cop or the traffic cop.
Turing_Machine 6y ago
The classic example here is Arlo Guthrie's song/story "Alice's Restaurant". For those who haven't heard it, the protagonists are guilty of littering, and the local cops wind up using dogs, tire-track analysis, and even aerial photography to make their case. As the song puts it, "They was usin' up all kinds of cop equipment that they had hangin' around the police officer station". Recommended if you haven't heard it, or even if you haven't heard it for a while.

stfp 6y ago

It's not about training. A chainsaw isn't "better" equipment for surgeons. A tank isn't "better" equipment for police.

eptcyka 6y ago

Under what circumstances would a police department require an armored personnel carrier? Especially in a country that's spanning half a continent, with allies on both sides. And a potentially-soon-to-be has-been world superpower? Even if it turns out to be necessary or practical, it certainly won't be the solution to the problem that necessitates having an APC.

runawaybottle 6y ago
A situation where 10 white nationalist militia members kidnap the mayor with stock bumped ar-15s. Or when someone blows the window out of a Casino hotel and lays fire to a festival. Or when the kids go nuts and shoot up the school. I don’t know if you’ve heard, but America has a unique mass shooting issue. Running alongside an APC would at least give you cover in the Vegas shooting. I guess my point is, you cannot demilitarize one side one when the other side already militarized, that ship has sailed in America. Edit: I’m getting downvoted on this, but I’d like to hear some counter points for these exact scenarios that happened (or almost happened) in the last 4 years.
- Broken_Hippo 6y ago
  99.9% of policing is non-violent, simple things. Just because you can come up with a few exceptions doesn't prove most cops need such things: It more proves that cops might need a special force that can come in if things get bad. I'm not convinced any situation you bring up would have been helped by the immediate availability of gear. Some of these could be better with better training: Some things could be somewhat prevented if we did things like make sure there was mental and physical health care, a safety net so folks didn't get so far down, and had reasonable gun laws. oh, and not have cops posing as oppressors with military equipment. We are the picture of oppression right now, and if it were happening in one of "America's Enemies", we'd bemoan them for not being free enough or use it as the ills of socialism or communism.
  - runawaybottle 6y ago
    The gear is not for 99% of situations. Neither are guns. But we give every single one of them a gun, don’t we? You get the gear so you can handle all possible scenarios. That isn’t the issue. The issue is something else. We can debate the real issue or muddle the pool and avert it. “Dressing up as oppressors” - you know, narrative building has no bounds. This is a new one. That’s all subjective, I don’t see it as oppression theater as you do.