7 ms·

My eyes used to hurt a lot on CRTs. A few hours every day in front of one and I could not go outside without sunglasses, anything would make my eyes hurt. Ever

by bserge 6y ago

My eyes used to hurt a lot on CRTs. A few hours every day in front of one and I could not go outside without sunglasses, anything would make my eyes hurt. Everything was fine if I went a week without using a computer. With LCDs, that's not a problem anymore, and I like it.

vidanay 6y ago
I think this had a lot to do with low quality fluorescent light ballasts in offices. I agree that it seemed to happen a lot more with CRT, but I have experienced it with LCD too.
- bserge 6y ago
  On LCD monitors, I could notice that on very low brightness settings, which was likely due to PWM flicker. I guess I'm sensitive to it.
- tonyarkles 6y ago
  In 2008 or so, I ended up going to a neurologist because I was getting these brutal headaches that couldn’t be resolved by my GP. They couldn’t find anything either. And then I quit my job and no longer spent my days starting at a CRT under shitty fluorescent lights, and all the problems went away. Magic!
  - Moru 6y ago
    Some people call it allergy to electricity but most of them just have problem with flickering lights. It's incredibly straining even if we don't notice the flicker.
thedanbob 6y ago
I guess most people can’t see the flicker on a CRT set at 60Hz, but I can. It’s especially bad in a room with fluorescent lights. First thing I’d do upon sitting down at a new computer with a CRT monitor was to bump up the refresh rate to 75Hz so I didn’t get a headache. Taking standardized tests in the early 2000s on locked down computers in fluorescent-lit test centers was torture.
- bserge 6y ago
  Yeah, I used the highest refresh rate I could force, usually 75-80 Hz. Some monitors could handle 90, and it made a difference, but it was still worse than LCD PWM flicker.
- baq 6y ago
  most people absolutely can see the 60hz, the effect is simply subtle. if you look at a CRT from an angle it's more visible, or you can wave your hand in front of you and observe the strobe effect. i definitely do not miss 60hz CRTs, they made me miserable.
  - Moru 6y ago
    I was so happy when I figured out how to switch to 60 Hz. Living in a PAL region I was stuck at 50 Hz. Later on PC I cranked up the Hz as high as it would go while still display something. And yes, the flicker is easy to spot if you just sit in front of the screen and look just above it, prefferably in a dark room. Or wave your hand in front of it. With LED lightbulbs you can also use your phone camera, move it realy close to the lamp and if you see banding, it's not good.
- deergomoo 6y ago
  I’m fine with 60 but I’m in a PAL region so all of my 90s consoles run at 50Hz. That is seriously uncomfortable to look at now and I have no idea how we all put up with it.
  - nitrogen 6y ago
    Presumably the phosphors in the PAL CRTs glowed for longer?
  - nezgar 6y ago
    May not have been bad in the earlier sets as they would have used phosphors that persisted longer to compensate, but later on, manufacturing costs were driven down and the same tubes/coatings from 60hz sets were being used in 50hz sets, making the flicker much more apparent.
elric 6y ago
Many LEDs have an annoying flicker as well, which can be very annoying and distracting for me. Especially around christmas time, when everyone and their grandmother puts out thousands of cheap LEDs. Even when they're not trying to blink, they're still flickering. I suspect I'm sensitive to this kind of stuff because I suffer from migraines, but still, I can't imagine I'm the only one.
- vidanay 6y ago
  Christmas LEDs are technological abominations. They literally hurt to look at.
  - ddingus 6y ago
    And they don't really twinkle like the heat driven, blinker style incandescent lights do. I loved to watch the pattern on the ceiling as a kid. It would change in subtle ways. Never the same, but sometimes really close. I got a set and I am scared of them. Fire hazard. But I do run them once in a while for young ones at Xmas time. Just so they can check it out.
    - golem14 6y ago
      I have had the same feeling about early cfl lamps. Turning those on seemed to make the rooms darker and more dingy instantly
      - ddingus 6y ago
        Yes! We tried to like those and had the same impression. Amount of light seemed good, but quality was in the dumps.
  - bserge 6y ago
    I don't understand what it is about some LEDs that make your eyes hurt when you look at them. Best way I can describe it is that my eyes can't focus on them and are constantly trying to.
dmead 6y ago
Same. A crt with refresh rates below like 60 and I could see the frames. It was torture. 120hz or more didn't seem to be an issue and its certainly not a problem since ive had lcds. That being said it might be fun to go back for while.
elvis70 6y ago
It was impossible for me to spend 8 hours a day in front of a screen until the end of the 90s. I still have a 1999 CRT monitor and I don't have that problem. This feeling of pain in my eyes is something I wouldn't want to experience anymore. There are times when I miss my dot matrix printer.
dghughes 6y ago
I remember when I switched from a CRT to an LCD monitor. The difference was so dramatic I remember my head aching. For me it wasn't the brightness it was the curve vs flat. Going from looking at a curved screen for years to a flat one was a massive change.
- LocalH 6y ago
  Out of curiosity, did you ever have similar issues with flat CRTs?
  - dghughes 6y ago
    I had a flat CRT TV a 30-ish Toshiba widescreen. But I was seated on a couch ten feet away so no problems there. I never had a flat CRT computer monitor. I think my reaction was due to being so close to the computer CRT monitor. My brain had adjusted to the curve but when I got the LCD I felt like I was going to throw up I felt so disoriented. It took about a week to get over it.
boomlinde 6y ago
This sensation may be caused by the flickering as the phosphor fades towards black before the screen is retraced. There are CRT monitors with long persistence phosphor that mitigate this, but it makes them unsuitable for motion video. My favorite concept is that of the Tektronix vector terminals. They trace the image to a long persistence phosphor as necessary and then retain the image without retracing it by constantly bombarding the whole screen with just enough electrons for the already lit phosphor to stay lit. As a result, once the image is drawn the screen may have a little brighter black than a "normal" CRT monitor, but no flickering. I've never seen one in real life, but it seems like it would be great for ergonomics.
- nezgar 6y ago
  Check out this demonstration of "Space War" on a PDP-1 using a radar long-persistance CRT: https://youtu.be/1EWQYAfuMYw https://youtu.be/1EWQYAfuMYw
willis936 6y ago
While running my CRT monitor at 60 Hz recently I discovered that peripheral vision has better temporal acuity than foveal vision. Flicker is much more noticeable of things you’re not looking directly at.

by bserge 6y ago

vidanay 6y ago

I think this had a lot to do with low quality fluorescent light ballasts in offices. I agree that it seemed to happen a lot more with CRT, but I have experienced it with LCD too.

bserge 6y ago
On LCD monitors, I could notice that on very low brightness settings, which was likely due to PWM flicker. I guess I'm sensitive to it.
tonyarkles 6y ago
In 2008 or so, I ended up going to a neurologist because I was getting these brutal headaches that couldn’t be resolved by my GP. They couldn’t find anything either. And then I quit my job and no longer spent my days starting at a CRT under shitty fluorescent lights, and all the problems went away. Magic!
- Moru 6y ago
  Some people call it allergy to electricity but most of them just have problem with flickering lights. It's incredibly straining even if we don't notice the flicker.

thedanbob 6y ago

I guess most people can’t see the flicker on a CRT set at 60Hz, but I can. It’s especially bad in a room with fluorescent lights. First thing I’d do upon sitting down at a new computer with a CRT monitor was to bump up the refresh rate to 75Hz so I didn’t get a headache. Taking standardized tests in the early 2000s on locked down computers in fluorescent-lit test centers was torture.

bserge 6y ago
Yeah, I used the highest refresh rate I could force, usually 75-80 Hz. Some monitors could handle 90, and it made a difference, but it was still worse than LCD PWM flicker.
baq 6y ago
most people absolutely can see the 60hz, the effect is simply subtle. if you look at a CRT from an angle it's more visible, or you can wave your hand in front of you and observe the strobe effect. i definitely do not miss 60hz CRTs, they made me miserable.
- Moru 6y ago
  I was so happy when I figured out how to switch to 60 Hz. Living in a PAL region I was stuck at 50 Hz. Later on PC I cranked up the Hz as high as it would go while still display something. And yes, the flicker is easy to spot if you just sit in front of the screen and look just above it, prefferably in a dark room. Or wave your hand in front of it. With LED lightbulbs you can also use your phone camera, move it realy close to the lamp and if you see banding, it's not good.
deergomoo 6y ago
I’m fine with 60 but I’m in a PAL region so all of my 90s consoles run at 50Hz. That is seriously uncomfortable to look at now and I have no idea how we all put up with it.
- nitrogen 6y ago
  Presumably the phosphors in the PAL CRTs glowed for longer?
- nezgar 6y ago
  May not have been bad in the earlier sets as they would have used phosphors that persisted longer to compensate, but later on, manufacturing costs were driven down and the same tubes/coatings from 60hz sets were being used in 50hz sets, making the flicker much more apparent.

elric 6y ago

Many LEDs have an annoying flicker as well, which can be very annoying and distracting for me. Especially around christmas time, when everyone and their grandmother puts out thousands of cheap LEDs. Even when they're not trying to blink, they're still flickering. I suspect I'm sensitive to this kind of stuff because I suffer from migraines, but still, I can't imagine I'm the only one.

vidanay 6y ago
Christmas LEDs are technological abominations. They literally hurt to look at.
- ddingus 6y ago
  And they don't really twinkle like the heat driven, blinker style incandescent lights do. I loved to watch the pattern on the ceiling as a kid. It would change in subtle ways. Never the same, but sometimes really close. I got a set and I am scared of them. Fire hazard. But I do run them once in a while for young ones at Xmas time. Just so they can check it out.
  - golem14 6y ago
    I have had the same feeling about early cfl lamps. Turning those on seemed to make the rooms darker and more dingy instantly
    - ddingus 6y ago
      Yes! We tried to like those and had the same impression. Amount of light seemed good, but quality was in the dumps.
- bserge 6y ago
  I don't understand what it is about some LEDs that make your eyes hurt when you look at them. Best way I can describe it is that my eyes can't focus on them and are constantly trying to.

dmead 6y ago

Same. A crt with refresh rates below like 60 and I could see the frames. It was torture. 120hz or more didn't seem to be an issue and its certainly not a problem since ive had lcds. That being said it might be fun to go back for while.

elvis70 6y ago

It was impossible for me to spend 8 hours a day in front of a screen until the end of the 90s. I still have a 1999 CRT monitor and I don't have that problem. This feeling of pain in my eyes is something I wouldn't want to experience anymore. There are times when I miss my dot matrix printer.

dghughes 6y ago

I remember when I switched from a CRT to an LCD monitor. The difference was so dramatic I remember my head aching. For me it wasn't the brightness it was the curve vs flat. Going from looking at a curved screen for years to a flat one was a massive change.

LocalH 6y ago
Out of curiosity, did you ever have similar issues with flat CRTs?
- dghughes 6y ago
  I had a flat CRT TV a 30-ish Toshiba widescreen. But I was seated on a couch ten feet away so no problems there. I never had a flat CRT computer monitor. I think my reaction was due to being so close to the computer CRT monitor. My brain had adjusted to the curve but when I got the LCD I felt like I was going to throw up I felt so disoriented. It took about a week to get over it.

boomlinde 6y ago

This sensation may be caused by the flickering as the phosphor fades towards black before the screen is retraced. There are CRT monitors with long persistence phosphor that mitigate this, but it makes them unsuitable for motion video. My favorite concept is that of the Tektronix vector terminals. They trace the image to a long persistence phosphor as necessary and then retain the image without retracing it by constantly bombarding the whole screen with just enough electrons for the already lit phosphor to stay lit. As a result, once the image is drawn the screen may have a little brighter black than a "normal" CRT monitor, but no flickering. I've never seen one in real life, but it seems like it would be great for ergonomics.

nezgar 6y ago
Check out this demonstration of "Space War" on a PDP-1 using a radar long-persistance CRT: https://youtu.be/1EWQYAfuMYw https://youtu.be/1EWQYAfuMYw

willis936 6y ago

While running my CRT monitor at 60 Hz recently I discovered that peripheral vision has better temporal acuity than foveal vision. Flicker is much more noticeable of things you’re not looking directly at.