7 ms·

Why rightwing extremists are thriving on Facebook

16 points by elorant 6y ago

trident1000 6y ago
*why are extremists winning in a world where 99% of people are moderate and normal. These new right wing groups like the Boogaloo group and others were largely a reaction to left wing extremists groups after they were normalized. Extremists exist on both sides, the Guardian seems to forget this regularly and publishes its big tech opinion on a lopsided argument. Right wing extremists exist, but I also have a "black power" fist spray painted on a wall outside visible from my window. Its not a nazi sign, its not a white power fist...its a black power fist. Normalizing one side and making an example of extremism from the other is a bit ridiculous. Condemn it all. They could have easily pointed out both sides and why society at large is subject to few extremists amongst us which is largely a result of allowing online mobs to exist.
- tribeofone 6y ago
  But that would bring light to the fact that there is such thing as left wing extremist and your comment would be downvoted like mine for pointing this out!
  - trident1000 6y ago
    To be expected. This isnt exactly the platform to bring this up but I do it anyway.
  - rbanffy 6y ago
    Would you like to point to the Oklahoma City bombing equivalent of the left?
- rbanffy 6y ago
  Would you like to point out one left-wing terrorist group equivalent to the Boogaloo, the Proud Boys or this bunch of loonies who plotted to kidnap a middle-aged woman? Edit: of course not. It's easier to downvote.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - fingerlocks 6y ago
    That’s easy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front I think they were the first domestic terrorists.
    - rbanffy 6y ago
      Of course, the KKK was never labeled one. I wonder why...
      - fingerlocks 6y ago
        Because the word didn’t enter popular lexicon until after 9/11?
        rbanffy 6y ago
        I remember the word "domestic terrorism" being used after the Oklahoma City bombing. That was in 1995.
        fingerlocks 6y ago
        Me too. But it was still referring to large scale attacks back then, and not applied anytime someone sets a car on fire.
        rbanffy 6y ago
        That was a blast that took out half a building and killed hundreds of people, including children. I don't see any such attack by any left-leaning group.
        fingerlocks 6y ago
tribeofone 6y ago
This is incredulous! We need to stop them before they organize to shut down streets, burn city blocks to the ground, murder innocent by-standards, and harass people in libraries and restaurants to accept their beliefs or beaten to a pulp!
- dang 6y ago
  We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
bArray 6y ago
I really wish the media would stop trying to link right to far-right. We may not agree politically, but being rightwing doesn't make you a terrorist or even a terrible human being. There is very clearly a separation between far-right and right in the same way there is a separation between far-left and left. Disagreeing on the position of abortion for example doesn't mean either of our lives are immediately at danger. This sort of conflation is dangerous. Regarding Facebook hosting only far-right terrorism and organization, this simply isn't true. It also hosts far-left terrorism. As much as Antifa claim to have no structure, there is clearly some form of hierarchy in the sub-groups - if there was none then how do they all turn up to the same place at the same time? Facebook doesn't have a far-right problem, it has a radicalization problem. The moment you are able to create bubbles and select who to include in them, you can't even rely on the report functionality anymore. _Any_ service that offers comments can be used for nefarious purposes. I distinctly remember pedophiles commenting timestamps in Youtube comments to indicate the "good" parts in the videos featuring young children. Hell, Club Penguin was used for terrorist planning in the film Four Lions. I know for a fact that Discord has a _massive_ pedophile problem. What it really comes down to is this: How do you moderate content when the amount of content is so large? You have some attempts to do this via AI, but one common problem with almost every automated system is that they over-train for things like key-words. Machine learning is well known to be too data focused rather than abstraction focused. Until we have generalized AI, I am not sure there is a solution.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- gremlinsinc 6y ago
  Anyone who would find joy/excitement, and cheer for "militia" (really terrorists) - kidnapping the governor of a blue state, even if you don't voice your 'support' of said terrorists, you still are right-wing extremists. I know many who support this movement on FB openly, and also support the 17 year old who shot protestors in WI. These are deplorable people who deserve to be de-platformed. Trump, himself called for the 'proud boys' to stand down and stand by... only emboldening them. As a leftist, the dems are 'right' in my opinion. In most countries in the world Bernie sanders would be a centrist.
foolzcrow 6y ago
Again trying to suggest your political opponents are far right extremists is disingenuous and makes me want to vote with them not you. Enough of the hyperbolic gas ligting. I'm voting against this form of lie every time.
benmmurphy 6y ago
Having people plan their terrorist plots on Facebook is a good thing. I'm not sure this is something we should be scolding Facebook for.
- rbanffy 6y ago
  I don't think we can rely on right-wing terorists' incompetence for keeping the society safe. It is handy from the law enforcement perspective that they kept a virtual paper trail easily available

16 points by elorant 6y ago

*why are extremists winning in a world where 99% of people are moderate and normal. These new right wing groups like the Boogaloo group and others were largely a reaction to left wing extremists groups after they were normalized. Extremists exist on both sides, the Guardian seems to forget this regularly and publishes its big tech opinion on a lopsided argument. Right wing extremists exist, but I also have a "black power" fist spray painted on a wall outside visible from my window. Its not a nazi sign, its not a white power fist...its a black power fist. Normalizing one side and making an example of extremism from the other is a bit ridiculous. Condemn it all. They could have easily pointed out both sides and why society at large is subject to few extremists amongst us which is largely a result of allowing online mobs to exist.

tribeofone 6y ago
But that would bring light to the fact that there is such thing as left wing extremist and your comment would be downvoted like mine for pointing this out!
- trident1000 6y ago
  To be expected. This isnt exactly the platform to bring this up but I do it anyway.
- rbanffy 6y ago
  Would you like to point to the Oklahoma City bombing equivalent of the left?
rbanffy 6y ago
Would you like to point out one left-wing terrorist group equivalent to the Boogaloo, the Proud Boys or this bunch of loonies who plotted to kidnap a middle-aged woman? Edit: of course not. It's easier to downvote.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- fingerlocks 6y ago
  That’s easy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front I think they were the first domestic terrorists.
  - rbanffy 6y ago
    Of course, the KKK was never labeled one. I wonder why...
    - fingerlocks 6y ago
      Because the word didn’t enter popular lexicon until after 9/11?
      - rbanffy 6y ago
        I remember the word "domestic terrorism" being used after the Oklahoma City bombing. That was in 1995.
        fingerlocks 6y ago
        Me too. But it was still referring to large scale attacks back then, and not applied anytime someone sets a car on fire.
        rbanffy 6y ago
        That was a blast that took out half a building and killed hundreds of people, including children. I don't see any such attack by any left-leaning group.
        fingerlocks 6y ago

tribeofone 6y ago

This is incredulous! We need to stop them before they organize to shut down streets, burn city blocks to the ground, murder innocent by-standards, and harass people in libraries and restaurants to accept their beliefs or beaten to a pulp!

dang 6y ago
We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

bArray 6y ago

I really wish the media would stop trying to link right to far-right. We may not agree politically, but being rightwing doesn't make you a terrorist or even a terrible human being. There is very clearly a separation between far-right and right in the same way there is a separation between far-left and left. Disagreeing on the position of abortion for example doesn't mean either of our lives are immediately at danger. This sort of conflation is dangerous. Regarding Facebook hosting only far-right terrorism and organization, this simply isn't true. It also hosts far-left terrorism. As much as Antifa claim to have no structure, there is clearly some form of hierarchy in the sub-groups - if there was none then how do they all turn up to the same place at the same time? Facebook doesn't have a far-right problem, it has a radicalization problem. The moment you are able to create bubbles and select who to include in them, you can't even rely on the report functionality anymore. _Any_ service that offers comments can be used for nefarious purposes. I distinctly remember pedophiles commenting timestamps in Youtube comments to indicate the "good" parts in the videos featuring young children. Hell, Club Penguin was used for terrorist planning in the film Four Lions. I know for a fact that Discord has a _massive_ pedophile problem. What it really comes down to is this: How do you moderate content when the amount of content is so large? You have some attempts to do this via AI, but one common problem with almost every automated system is that they over-train for things like key-words. Machine learning is well known to be too data focused rather than abstraction focused. Until we have generalized AI, I am not sure there is a solution.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
gremlinsinc 6y ago
Anyone who would find joy/excitement, and cheer for "militia" (really terrorists) - kidnapping the governor of a blue state, even if you don't voice your 'support' of said terrorists, you still are right-wing extremists. I know many who support this movement on FB openly, and also support the 17 year old who shot protestors in WI. These are deplorable people who deserve to be de-platformed. Trump, himself called for the 'proud boys' to stand down and stand by... only emboldening them. As a leftist, the dems are 'right' in my opinion. In most countries in the world Bernie sanders would be a centrist.

foolzcrow 6y ago

Again trying to suggest your political opponents are far right extremists is disingenuous and makes me want to vote with them not you. Enough of the hyperbolic gas ligting. I'm voting against this form of lie every time.

benmmurphy 6y ago

Having people plan their terrorist plots on Facebook is a good thing. I'm not sure this is something we should be scolding Facebook for.

rbanffy 6y ago
I don't think we can rely on right-wing terorists' incompetence for keeping the society safe. It is handy from the law enforcement perspective that they kept a virtual paper trail easily available