6 ms·

If you're a Mac user that cares about user experience, I would like to (aggressively) recommend Shrugs.app[0]. It's a Cocoa/AppKit app, made with macOS native t

If you're a Mac user that cares about user experience, I would like to (aggressively) recommend Shrugs.app[0]. It's a Cocoa/AppKit app, made with macOS native technologies that integrates most of macOS features in the Slack experience. It's the best app in the town, surpassing Ripcord (which is developed in Qt and is ugly and foreign in macOS) or using Slack in the browser (my usual option), or using the Electron client. It's written by Helge Heß[1], which you might have heard about - he has some fun projects like SwiftWebUI[2]. [0] https://shrugs.app https://shrugs.app [1] https://www.helgehess.eu https://www.helgehess.eu [2] https://github.com/SwiftWebUI/SwiftWebUI https://github.com/SwiftWebUI/SwiftWebUI

saagarjha 6y ago
I’ve been using it for months and it’s seriously good. It’s really a shame that one person can write something like this and yet Slack “doesn’t have the resources” to make their experience better on native platforms.
- danpalmer 6y ago
  Let me say up front that I really dislike the Slack app, but I do think this comment is unfair on Slack. For them, the biggest lever to improved user experience is almost certainly _product features_ not performance or native integration. As much as I'd like drag and drop support or less RAM usage, Slack are mostly trying to convert people who have never used instant messaging in the workplace to using it daily (which I think is overall a win), and mostly trying to make users who are not as comfortable with software as we are use a new piece of software. As an example, when I share a Google Docs link in Slack, I get a prompt from Google Docs _in Slack_ with a one click button to "fix" sharing so that those in the channel will be able to see it. That feature is probably vastly more impactful than improving system integration. For there to be features like that, or an ecosystem of third party integrations, speed of development is likely a huge factor, and for that, being able to share the codebase across web and desktop apps is likely a no-brainer. As much as I'd love to see a more performant Slack, it's likely that it would have large negative impacts on the speed of iteration elsewhere, and so I can understand why they don't do it. Yes there are faster Electron apps, but typically they manage that by... not being Electron apps in certain areas, and sacrificing adaptability for that. Also, Slack doesn't change _that_ much right?! Well yes and no. As an end user we probably only get ~10% of the changes – 90% may be experiments that never see the light of day but still have to be built in order to find the 10% that are worth it. And even then, assuming the new features are only designed for ~50% of users, because users don't typically use every feature of a product, you'll only actually see 1 in 20 changes that the Slack team build.
  - lowercased 6y ago
    > Slack are mostly trying to convert people who have never used instant messaging in the workplace to using it daily Not sure it even goes that far. They're trying to convince corporate gatekeepers to adopt it, and 'more features' sells to them. The avg person in charge of deciding to use slack at a company is likely not going to care if memory usage impacts other stuff on the users' systems. re: the google docs sharing thing - I really hate it, because I'm pretty much always asked this question, and I say 'no' or remove the alert, then I'm asked again next time. And the next time. And across every org i have to use slack for. Either use 'corp' or 'room' preferences for this, or remember and respect my own preferences. Quit asking something repeatedly.
    - danpalmer 6y ago
      > They're trying to convince corporate gatekeepers to adopt it This is definitely the "enterprise sales" area where they seem to be doing a lot of work now, but a few years ago it was much more about finding an evangelist on a team somewhere with a company card, the pricing was structured so that you could get to critical mass on a typical pre-approved expenses limit. > re: the google docs sharing thing - I really hate it, because I'm pretty much always asked this question, and I say 'no' or remove the alert Yeah I absolutely get this, but I'd say that in wanting to solve a repeated annoyance like this we're already in the minority. Most users would treat this as a feature – they don't need to find a solution because it just asks them every time and it's easy to click the button to make it do what they what it to do.
- mszcz 6y ago
  Everyone always bitches about how much electricity is used mining cryptocurrencies yet somehow Slack and other vendors don't get slapped by the same argument. Each time my wife turns on her work issued laptop (T470s, i7, 16GB RAM, SSD) with mandatory Norton Antivirus and mandatory Slack it's always fans on 100% and it pretty much stays that way all day. Not to mention the fact that it's a fucking chore to work on it because of the CPU utilization so the laptop usually stays on longer. I wonder how much extra electricity does that use since there are a lot of people in her org and a lot of other orgs using Slack and whatnot...
  - Barrin92 6y ago
    It's probably a reasonable thing to discuss but it's on an entirely different scale than cryptocurrencies. One single bitcoin transaction currently consumes about 210kwh, so about 20 days worth of energy use of an entire American household. With some napkin maths I'd say a laptop maybe uses 150 kwh a year. Google seems to suggest a heavily used machine draws about 30% more power than an idling one, so over a year your laptop going ham is still only a fraction of a single bitcoin transaction.
    - mszcz 6y ago
      Oh, I was too ignorant to do the math myself, thanks & sorry ;) It does seem that the comparison I made is apples & elephants, but I do think that the point still kinda stands. Unoptimized monstrosities like Slack waste a lot of electricity, decrease producitivity and make life miserable.
    - keymone 6y ago
      It’s completely useless metric. One bitcoin transaction can represent a billion of off-chain exchanges. Energy is spent securing the chain, not executing transactions.
      - Barrin92 6y ago
        >One bitcoin transaction can represent a billion of off-chain exchanges It can't because the entire uniqueness of crypto-currencies lies in their decentralisation. If you make an arbitrary large block you'll increase the running costs of the node, which will centralise the control of the chain. If you have a bazillion transactions on a block you've just reinvented a bank, because the integrity of countless of transactions then lies with one institution outside of the actual chain, and the only one who'll run the node is someone with a huge data-center
tomphoolery 6y ago
Shrugs looks awesome!
- helge5 6y ago
  Thanks a lot! It is still lacking quite some functionality (check the FAQ for details), but we'll get there.
beardbound 6y ago
That looks awesome. I’m going to check it out. I’ve never really liked the slack app on Mac. I also like that it’s not a subscription. That’s a breath of fresh air. I wish more developers would just charge me for good software.

saagarjha 6y ago

I’ve been using it for months and it’s seriously good. It’s really a shame that one person can write something like this and yet Slack “doesn’t have the resources” to make their experience better on native platforms.

danpalmer 6y ago
Let me say up front that I really dislike the Slack app, but I do think this comment is unfair on Slack. For them, the biggest lever to improved user experience is almost certainly _product features_ not performance or native integration. As much as I'd like drag and drop support or less RAM usage, Slack are mostly trying to convert people who have never used instant messaging in the workplace to using it daily (which I think is overall a win), and mostly trying to make users who are not as comfortable with software as we are use a new piece of software. As an example, when I share a Google Docs link in Slack, I get a prompt from Google Docs _in Slack_ with a one click button to "fix" sharing so that those in the channel will be able to see it. That feature is probably vastly more impactful than improving system integration. For there to be features like that, or an ecosystem of third party integrations, speed of development is likely a huge factor, and for that, being able to share the codebase across web and desktop apps is likely a no-brainer. As much as I'd love to see a more performant Slack, it's likely that it would have large negative impacts on the speed of iteration elsewhere, and so I can understand why they don't do it. Yes there are faster Electron apps, but typically they manage that by... not being Electron apps in certain areas, and sacrificing adaptability for that. Also, Slack doesn't change _that_ much right?! Well yes and no. As an end user we probably only get ~10% of the changes – 90% may be experiments that never see the light of day but still have to be built in order to find the 10% that are worth it. And even then, assuming the new features are only designed for ~50% of users, because users don't typically use every feature of a product, you'll only actually see 1 in 20 changes that the Slack team build.
- lowercased 6y ago
  > Slack are mostly trying to convert people who have never used instant messaging in the workplace to using it daily Not sure it even goes that far. They're trying to convince corporate gatekeepers to adopt it, and 'more features' sells to them. The avg person in charge of deciding to use slack at a company is likely not going to care if memory usage impacts other stuff on the users' systems. re: the google docs sharing thing - I really hate it, because I'm pretty much always asked this question, and I say 'no' or remove the alert, then I'm asked again next time. And the next time. And across every org i have to use slack for. Either use 'corp' or 'room' preferences for this, or remember and respect my own preferences. Quit asking something repeatedly.
  - danpalmer 6y ago
    > They're trying to convince corporate gatekeepers to adopt it This is definitely the "enterprise sales" area where they seem to be doing a lot of work now, but a few years ago it was much more about finding an evangelist on a team somewhere with a company card, the pricing was structured so that you could get to critical mass on a typical pre-approved expenses limit. > re: the google docs sharing thing - I really hate it, because I'm pretty much always asked this question, and I say 'no' or remove the alert Yeah I absolutely get this, but I'd say that in wanting to solve a repeated annoyance like this we're already in the minority. Most users would treat this as a feature – they don't need to find a solution because it just asks them every time and it's easy to click the button to make it do what they what it to do.
mszcz 6y ago
Everyone always bitches about how much electricity is used mining cryptocurrencies yet somehow Slack and other vendors don't get slapped by the same argument. Each time my wife turns on her work issued laptop (T470s, i7, 16GB RAM, SSD) with mandatory Norton Antivirus and mandatory Slack it's always fans on 100% and it pretty much stays that way all day. Not to mention the fact that it's a fucking chore to work on it because of the CPU utilization so the laptop usually stays on longer. I wonder how much extra electricity does that use since there are a lot of people in her org and a lot of other orgs using Slack and whatnot...
- Barrin92 6y ago
  It's probably a reasonable thing to discuss but it's on an entirely different scale than cryptocurrencies. One single bitcoin transaction currently consumes about 210kwh, so about 20 days worth of energy use of an entire American household. With some napkin maths I'd say a laptop maybe uses 150 kwh a year. Google seems to suggest a heavily used machine draws about 30% more power than an idling one, so over a year your laptop going ham is still only a fraction of a single bitcoin transaction.
  - mszcz 6y ago
    Oh, I was too ignorant to do the math myself, thanks & sorry ;) It does seem that the comparison I made is apples & elephants, but I do think that the point still kinda stands. Unoptimized monstrosities like Slack waste a lot of electricity, decrease producitivity and make life miserable.
  - keymone 6y ago
    It’s completely useless metric. One bitcoin transaction can represent a billion of off-chain exchanges. Energy is spent securing the chain, not executing transactions.
    - Barrin92 6y ago
      >One bitcoin transaction can represent a billion of off-chain exchanges It can't because the entire uniqueness of crypto-currencies lies in their decentralisation. If you make an arbitrary large block you'll increase the running costs of the node, which will centralise the control of the chain. If you have a bazillion transactions on a block you've just reinvented a bank, because the integrity of countless of transactions then lies with one institution outside of the actual chain, and the only one who'll run the node is someone with a huge data-center

tomphoolery 6y ago

Shrugs looks awesome!

helge5 6y ago
Thanks a lot! It is still lacking quite some functionality (check the FAQ for details), but we'll get there.

beardbound 6y ago

That looks awesome. I’m going to check it out. I’ve never really liked the slack app on Mac. I also like that it’s not a subscription. That’s a breath of fresh air. I wish more developers would just charge me for good software.