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I completely agree that their methodology is not robust. But Amazon also refused to state what fraction of items go to landfill, despite making subjective clai

I completely agree that their methodology is not robust. But Amazon also refused to state what fraction of items go to landfill, despite making subjective claims that it's "on occasion" and the "vast majority" are liquidated or resold. If that was true, Amazon would have the data to back it up and would only benefit them to say so. If we want to know the actual number of items that go to landfill, we don't need to send GPS trackers everywhere, we can just mandate Amazon (and all other companies) to report on that. It's not like they don't have the data.

inopinatus 6y ago
That is a very reasonable public policy idea. Let's add to that list of failures: the article has no discussion of reasonable policy ideas (despite quoting researchers whose life's work is in producing them). NB: don't assume that there's no downside to any given retailer unilaterally disclosing their return rates, because returns are a measurable factor in marginal cost & revenue assessment and partially describe both the elasticity of demand and overall customer sentiment. Every retailer of scale would be interested in obtaining the return statistics (especially segmented) of their competitors; and, as the tone of the article illustrates, there are any number of hacks poised to scribble out mendacious venom on the basis of such data, so no corporate PR lackey worth their communications degree will willingly start that conversation.
Spooky23 6y ago
In fairness, they outsource and sell returns by the pound. It’s a big business - they have no idea what happens to it.
yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
> If that was true, Amazon would have the data to back it up Absolutely. > and would only benefit them to say so. Not nearly as obvious. It might have some PR benefits (this week, until later when public opinion shifts), but it also provides information about their business that they may prefer to not share (off the top of my head, it probably leaks something about defect rates and their quality controls).
- rbecker 6y ago
  > but it also provides information about their business that they may prefer to not share On the other hand, it's probably not a good idea to be kept in the dark regarding how major sectors of the economy function, with only the word of corporate PR departments to go on that everything is fine.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  People may use this knowledge to defraud Amazon. For example, if it is clear that Amazon doesn't actually check the returns but sends them to the landfill, then an unscrupulous buyer may return a brick and keep the product for free. People are very clever in figuring out ways to defraud companies, so if I was Amazon I'd be skeptical about giving out information about internal processes without a very good reason to.
kelnos 6y ago
> If that was true, Amazon would have the data to back it up and would only benefit them to say so. I expect Amazon likely outsources a lot of returns handling, so they may not have that data.
- hef19898 6y ago
  They do, even if it was outsourced. Which it isn't, at least in Europe last time I talked tpo people. Liquidators, companies buying returns graded as unsellable, are used a lot so. Whatever they do with the stuff buy wholesale from Aamzon, and others, isn#t necessarily Amazon's or anyone else problem, if you ask me. Amazon does have all the data, downto the individual returns, about the processing, decission, reason codes and final fate (sodl as new, warehouse deal, sold as used or liquidated, donated,...). They also have every reason to not share that data publicly.
econcon 6y ago
I use amazon India, sometimes I receive broken stuff and I repair it on my own and ask Amazon India if they are willing to refund the part of the sale price. Recently I had received a dented cooktop and since it was functional and my family isn't too much interested in aesthetics, Amazon offered 30% refund to keep it. I think I am doing my part to prevent these products from ending up in landfill. Amazon also honours refund and return request, but not all time I request it. It's still better than offline shop experience where I've to deal with a real person making weird faces which I find hard to interpret.

inopinatus 6y ago

That is a very reasonable public policy idea. Let's add to that list of failures: the article has no discussion of reasonable policy ideas (despite quoting researchers whose life's work is in producing them). NB: don't assume that there's no downside to any given retailer unilaterally disclosing their return rates, because returns are a measurable factor in marginal cost & revenue assessment and partially describe both the elasticity of demand and overall customer sentiment. Every retailer of scale would be interested in obtaining the return statistics (especially segmented) of their competitors; and, as the tone of the article illustrates, there are any number of hacks poised to scribble out mendacious venom on the basis of such data, so no corporate PR lackey worth their communications degree will willingly start that conversation.

Spooky23 6y ago

In fairness, they outsource and sell returns by the pound. It’s a big business - they have no idea what happens to it.

yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago

> If that was true, Amazon would have the data to back it up Absolutely. > and would only benefit them to say so. Not nearly as obvious. It might have some PR benefits (this week, until later when public opinion shifts), but it also provides information about their business that they may prefer to not share (off the top of my head, it probably leaks something about defect rates and their quality controls).

rbecker 6y ago
> but it also provides information about their business that they may prefer to not share On the other hand, it's probably not a good idea to be kept in the dark regarding how major sectors of the economy function, with only the word of corporate PR departments to go on that everything is fine.
WalterBright 6y ago
People may use this knowledge to defraud Amazon. For example, if it is clear that Amazon doesn't actually check the returns but sends them to the landfill, then an unscrupulous buyer may return a brick and keep the product for free. People are very clever in figuring out ways to defraud companies, so if I was Amazon I'd be skeptical about giving out information about internal processes without a very good reason to.

kelnos 6y ago

> If that was true, Amazon would have the data to back it up and would only benefit them to say so. I expect Amazon likely outsources a lot of returns handling, so they may not have that data.

hef19898 6y ago
They do, even if it was outsourced. Which it isn't, at least in Europe last time I talked tpo people. Liquidators, companies buying returns graded as unsellable, are used a lot so. Whatever they do with the stuff buy wholesale from Aamzon, and others, isn#t necessarily Amazon's or anyone else problem, if you ask me. Amazon does have all the data, downto the individual returns, about the processing, decission, reason codes and final fate (sodl as new, warehouse deal, sold as used or liquidated, donated,...). They also have every reason to not share that data publicly.

econcon 6y ago

I use amazon India, sometimes I receive broken stuff and I repair it on my own and ask Amazon India if they are willing to refund the part of the sale price. Recently I had received a dented cooktop and since it was functional and my family isn't too much interested in aesthetics, Amazon offered 30% refund to keep it. I think I am doing my part to prevent these products from ending up in landfill. Amazon also honours refund and return request, but not all time I request it. It's still better than offline shop experience where I've to deal with a real person making weird faces which I find hard to interpret.