4 ms·

Almond production requires a lot of water [1] which taxes our environment. Especially given the drought and climate change. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A

by Fnoord 6y ago

Almond production requires a lot of water [1] which taxes our environment. Especially given the drought and climate change. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almond#Sustainability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almond#Sustainability

nightski 6y ago
Last time I looked water use wasnt much more than a tomato when compared on a per calorie basis. I'd love to be shown evidence to the contrary however.
- apcragg 6y ago
  True, but people aren't exactly consuming tomatoes for their caloric content in a way they would for say, nuts or grains.
- Fnoord 6y ago
  As already mentioned you don't eat tomato for calories. Main use is flavor (caveat: cheap application of tomato is the "Holländische Wasserbomben" as the Germans call it which is good sale if you sell per weight. Works with ignorant customers who require just "tomatoes"). 3 almonds are equivalent to 1 tomato according to this Mother Jones article (2014) [1]. AFAIK our almonds here in NL are imported, while we are known for our tomato export. [1] https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/02/wheres-californias-water-going/ https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/02/wheres-calif...
a3n 6y ago
Even worse because of where they grow almonds, in the California Central Valley. That place isn't as dry as a bone; bones are as dry as it.
codemac 6y ago
Almonds are ~9% or so of our ag water supply, feed for meat and meat products use 50%+ of our ag water supply. Note that agricultural water use is ~40% of water use. Also note that California produces 80% of the world's almonds, but something like 1% of the world's meat. It's not even sensible to discuss almonds in the face of water use for meat production. As long as your calories are filtered through another mammal, it will always be extremely inefficient.
- mod 6y ago
  Almonds have got to be a tiny percentage of our food supply as compared to meat, though. It would make more sense as a water-to-calorie comparison of almonds vs meat.
  - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
    Yeah 2lbs per person per year in the US.
  - codemac 6y ago
    > It would make more sense as a water-to-calorie comparison of almonds vs meat. Alfalfa uses a metric crapton more water per calorie, and is the main source of feed for many cattle & hogs. I think if you do the water-to-calorie comparison, the numbers will only get much much worse for meat due to the mammal's energy that needs to be fed, but I'm more than happy to be proven wrong.
    - mod 6y ago
      Sure, but I've never seen a farmer watering their hayfield, and I live in the country so I would have. I personally don't consider it "water usage" for a plant to soak up rain; it only becomes a problem when we're pulling water out of non-replenishing sources, or those that don't replenish as quickly as we use them up. Aquifers etc. Or diverting entire streams & rivers, things like that. My garden "uses" a lot of water each year, but it's all rainwater. I don't pump any water onto it from anywhere. If it weren't my garden, it would be some native plants in their stead. Edit: Also, I got curious and googled this topic, came up with this: https://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postdetail.cfm?postnum=17721 https://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postdetail.cfm?postnum=1772...
- porb121 6y ago
  yes, we should also consume less meat in addition to consuming less almonds.
- tidepod12 6y ago
  >Almonds are ~9% or so of our ag water supply, feed for meat and meat products use 50%+ of our ag water supply. Is this in all of the US, or...? Water supply is a very localized thing, so comparing water usage in say, Iowa to water usage in California isn't really apple-to-apples. You won't solve California droughts by reducing water usage in Iowa, for example. >Also note that California produces 80% of the world's almonds, but something like 1% of the world's meat. If these numbers are accurate, it seems like it's more sensible to discuss almonds in the face of water usage and eschew talking about meat, since California in the midst of its many droughts is specifically using a lot of its local water supply on almonds, not meat. edit: the numbers I found from a quick Wikipedia search are that 11% of Cali's Ag water is used on pasture forage (though this doesn't necessarily mean it's for meat; from other information on the Wiki page it looks like a lot of this pasture forage is for horses), and 18% on Alfalfa which is exported as cattle feed. So that's anywhere from 18% - 29% on "meat and meat products", whereas 34% is "fruit and nuts" (it's unstated how much of that is almonds).
Rzor 6y ago
Interestingly and a bit off-topic, Michael Burry (of The Big Short movie/Scion Capital fame) had a few plays on almond farms regarding water scarcity. It seems that he left his positions a few years ago, but the whole California water wars thing is quite unsettling.
samatman 6y ago
Israeli almond production requires 1/20th the water used in California. Their big secret? A pipe inserted to 3 feet of depth, next to each tree, and watering into the pipe instead of spraying it on the ground. Almond production does not require a lot of water. California almond growers use a lot of water because they're allowed to get away with it.
- csdreamer7 6y ago
  More info on senior and junior water rights in California. https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/waterrights/board_info/faqs.html https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/waterrights/board_info/faqs.h... Do you have any sources on that specific 1/20th water usage claim?

by Fnoord 6y ago

nightski 6y ago

Last time I looked water use wasnt much more than a tomato when compared on a per calorie basis. I'd love to be shown evidence to the contrary however.

apcragg 6y ago
True, but people aren't exactly consuming tomatoes for their caloric content in a way they would for say, nuts or grains.
Fnoord 6y ago
As already mentioned you don't eat tomato for calories. Main use is flavor (caveat: cheap application of tomato is the "Holländische Wasserbomben" as the Germans call it which is good sale if you sell per weight. Works with ignorant customers who require just "tomatoes"). 3 almonds are equivalent to 1 tomato according to this Mother Jones article (2014) [1]. AFAIK our almonds here in NL are imported, while we are known for our tomato export. [1] https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/02/wheres-californias-water-going/ https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/02/wheres-calif...

a3n 6y ago

Even worse because of where they grow almonds, in the California Central Valley. That place isn't as dry as a bone; bones are as dry as it.

codemac 6y ago

Almonds are ~9% or so of our ag water supply, feed for meat and meat products use 50%+ of our ag water supply. Note that agricultural water use is ~40% of water use. Also note that California produces 80% of the world's almonds, but something like 1% of the world's meat. It's not even sensible to discuss almonds in the face of water use for meat production. As long as your calories are filtered through another mammal, it will always be extremely inefficient.

mod 6y ago
Almonds have got to be a tiny percentage of our food supply as compared to meat, though. It would make more sense as a water-to-calorie comparison of almonds vs meat.
- JoeAltmaier 6y ago
  Yeah 2lbs per person per year in the US.
- codemac 6y ago
  > It would make more sense as a water-to-calorie comparison of almonds vs meat. Alfalfa uses a metric crapton more water per calorie, and is the main source of feed for many cattle & hogs. I think if you do the water-to-calorie comparison, the numbers will only get much much worse for meat due to the mammal's energy that needs to be fed, but I'm more than happy to be proven wrong.
  - mod 6y ago
    Sure, but I've never seen a farmer watering their hayfield, and I live in the country so I would have. I personally don't consider it "water usage" for a plant to soak up rain; it only becomes a problem when we're pulling water out of non-replenishing sources, or those that don't replenish as quickly as we use them up. Aquifers etc. Or diverting entire streams & rivers, things like that. My garden "uses" a lot of water each year, but it's all rainwater. I don't pump any water onto it from anywhere. If it weren't my garden, it would be some native plants in their stead. Edit: Also, I got curious and googled this topic, came up with this: https://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postdetail.cfm?postnum=17721 https://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postdetail.cfm?postnum=1772...
porb121 6y ago
yes, we should also consume less meat in addition to consuming less almonds.
tidepod12 6y ago
>Almonds are ~9% or so of our ag water supply, feed for meat and meat products use 50%+ of our ag water supply. Is this in all of the US, or...? Water supply is a very localized thing, so comparing water usage in say, Iowa to water usage in California isn't really apple-to-apples. You won't solve California droughts by reducing water usage in Iowa, for example. >Also note that California produces 80% of the world's almonds, but something like 1% of the world's meat. If these numbers are accurate, it seems like it's more sensible to discuss almonds in the face of water usage and eschew talking about meat, since California in the midst of its many droughts is specifically using a lot of its local water supply on almonds, not meat. edit: the numbers I found from a quick Wikipedia search are that 11% of Cali's Ag water is used on pasture forage (though this doesn't necessarily mean it's for meat; from other information on the Wiki page it looks like a lot of this pasture forage is for horses), and 18% on Alfalfa which is exported as cattle feed. So that's anywhere from 18% - 29% on "meat and meat products", whereas 34% is "fruit and nuts" (it's unstated how much of that is almonds).

Rzor 6y ago

Interestingly and a bit off-topic, Michael Burry (of The Big Short movie/Scion Capital fame) had a few plays on almond farms regarding water scarcity. It seems that he left his positions a few years ago, but the whole California water wars thing is quite unsettling.

samatman 6y ago

Israeli almond production requires 1/20th the water used in California. Their big secret? A pipe inserted to 3 feet of depth, next to each tree, and watering into the pipe instead of spraying it on the ground. Almond production does not require a lot of water. California almond growers use a lot of water because they're allowed to get away with it.

csdreamer7 6y ago
More info on senior and junior water rights in California. https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/waterrights/board_info/faqs.html https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/waterrights/board_info/faqs.h... Do you have any sources on that specific 1/20th water usage claim?