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Similar evolution with no selection pressure: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/wisdom-teeth-evolution-humans-flinders-university-processed-food-b9076

by cm2187 6y ago

Similar evolution with no selection pressure: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/wisdom-teeth-evolution-humans-flinders-university-processed-food-b907634.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/wisdom-teeth-evol... I don’t think Darwinism is scientifically established. It has become a bit of a sacred cow because of its opposition with religion, but it is merely a good explanation compatible with the data. That doesn’t prove it. It may be that life evolves and adapts through other mechanism than mere selective pressure.

mrfusion 6y ago
I’ve always wondered that. Like why hasn’t evolution itself evolved as well?
- ncmncm 6y ago
  What has led you to believe that evolution is not itself continuously evolving in each lineage? What do you imagine DNA is for? What do you imagine sex is for? Do you imagine that sexual reproduction always existed, or that it has had no effect on the lineages where it occurs, or their relative prevalence? How do you imagine those lineages became so prevalent, among multicellular organisms?
- Barrin92 6y ago
  evolution itself does evolve. Eusociality or sexual dimorphism, group dynamics and all kinds of complex phenomena obviously weren't present in the primordial soup but are pathways themselves carved out by evolution. Rate of mutations may change, new mechanisms of evolution may turn up, humans ironically by understanding our genome have acquired the ability to manipulate it in intelligent fashion, and so on.
slickrick216 6y ago
Selection pressure probably doesn’t apply to evolution in the present tense as evolution is not a conscious entity. Survival of the fittest could have only a past tense application ie the cause of evolution traits surviving. In this case evolution doesn’t know if 3 arteries is good or bad it just happens those people have more kids and their kids have more kids until one day all the 3 artery people die because of some disease where having 3 arteries means you are more likely to die. This will leave 2 artery people living on and from their perspective looking back it’s then selection pressure.
- cm2187 6y ago
  You are assuming this is completely random, and perhaps it is. But the evolutions about wisdom teeth for instance seem logical.
  - slickrick216 6y ago
    Yeah maybe I don’t know how that could happen though. Epigenetics maybe?
ncmncm 6y ago
There is no such thing as "Darwinism" outside of Creationist propaganda. Evolution by natural selection is directly observed in labs, farm fields, and jungles alike. Biologists are not seeking to "establish" it, but to refine it and place it in context with evolution by sexual selection, by genetic drift, by mutualism, and by other influences less well characterized, not least epigenetics, which acts at the scale of individuals. I.e., lots of "mechanisms" are known. None contradicts any other. What mix is responsible for a change is often hard to tease out. Darwin wrote about both natural selection and sexual selection. Which do you imagine to be "Darwinism"? You would better get your information from people not seeking actively to delude you.

by cm2187 6y ago

mrfusion 6y ago

I’ve always wondered that. Like why hasn’t evolution itself evolved as well?

ncmncm 6y ago
What has led you to believe that evolution is not itself continuously evolving in each lineage? What do you imagine DNA is for? What do you imagine sex is for? Do you imagine that sexual reproduction always existed, or that it has had no effect on the lineages where it occurs, or their relative prevalence? How do you imagine those lineages became so prevalent, among multicellular organisms?
Barrin92 6y ago
evolution itself does evolve. Eusociality or sexual dimorphism, group dynamics and all kinds of complex phenomena obviously weren't present in the primordial soup but are pathways themselves carved out by evolution. Rate of mutations may change, new mechanisms of evolution may turn up, humans ironically by understanding our genome have acquired the ability to manipulate it in intelligent fashion, and so on.

slickrick216 6y ago

Selection pressure probably doesn’t apply to evolution in the present tense as evolution is not a conscious entity. Survival of the fittest could have only a past tense application ie the cause of evolution traits surviving. In this case evolution doesn’t know if 3 arteries is good or bad it just happens those people have more kids and their kids have more kids until one day all the 3 artery people die because of some disease where having 3 arteries means you are more likely to die. This will leave 2 artery people living on and from their perspective looking back it’s then selection pressure.

cm2187 6y ago
You are assuming this is completely random, and perhaps it is. But the evolutions about wisdom teeth for instance seem logical.
- slickrick216 6y ago
  Yeah maybe I don’t know how that could happen though. Epigenetics maybe?

ncmncm 6y ago

There is no such thing as "Darwinism" outside of Creationist propaganda. Evolution by natural selection is directly observed in labs, farm fields, and jungles alike. Biologists are not seeking to "establish" it, but to refine it and place it in context with evolution by sexual selection, by genetic drift, by mutualism, and by other influences less well characterized, not least epigenetics, which acts at the scale of individuals. I.e., lots of "mechanisms" are known. None contradicts any other. What mix is responsible for a change is often hard to tease out. Darwin wrote about both natural selection and sexual selection. Which do you imagine to be "Darwinism"? You would better get your information from people not seeking actively to delude you.