3 ms·

> if I get tricked into installing Do you think that people are incapable of using personal computers then? Just the regular old PC. This argument falls fla

by stale2002 6y ago

> if I get tricked into installing Do you think that people are incapable of using personal computers then? Just the regular old PC. This argument falls flat on its face, because it is blatantly obvious, that, for some reason, people are capable of using PCs, and don't explode from the confusion of doing so. Every single argument that you are making, could apply to the PC. But people still do alright using PCs. Phones should not be any different. > good luck with crafting a permission system How are they doing that on the PC? PCs work fine. > how is someone who's busy being a lawyer Thats an interesting question. Which has an answer. How does a lawyer use a PC, right now? So thats how they'll do it. > pretty much like the internet back then Why do we have to talk about the internet from a long time ago? Just talk about the current internet. Which people use. On the PC. Right now. > t there's absolutely no way to open up iOS without wreaking havoc Just do it the same way that PCs currently work. Right now. Because PCs work, right now, and society is not falling apart. > because we've been there in the early internet and security-wise it was an absolute nightmare. We don't need to talk about the early internet. Just make the iPhone the same as modern day PCs. Which people are already capable of using just fine.

dividedbyzero 6y ago
> How are they doing that on the PC? PCs work fine. > Just make the iPhone the same as modern day PCs. Which people are already capable of using just fine. Ransomware attacks are absolutely rampant, though you'll never hear about the vast majority of incidents of course, and pretty much all of those start with someone running thingycorp_salaries_full_list.xlsx.exe, enabling macros for a fishy .docx, opening an infected .pdf, downloading and running infected installers, plugging in random USB keys, and so on. Then there's lots and lots of phishing attacks going on, and that's with most companies already clamping down on attack vectors really hard — if people used private PCs as much as they use their private smartphones, for sensitive things like banking, without an IT department to shield them from the worst of it, I guess consumer Windows would get a lot more locked down really quickly. > people are capable of using PCs, and don't explode from the confusion of doing so. People may not explode from confusion, but if they had a better idea of how complex IT security has become, they might at least feel somewhat uneasy. Even people in IT roles screw up and get pwned, or build systems in a way that lets them get pwned easily, all the time really. Bad actors have become pretty sophisticated over the last decade as well, and Covid-19 is only making things worse as lots of unsavory individuals with money and resources find that real-world crime doesn't quite deliver the returns it used to, and everyone and their mother now conduct large parts of their lives through their smartphone and move lots of money through those devices. Personally, I've definitely noticed both attack volume and sophistication going up few notches already. > How does a lawyer use a PC, right now? So thats how they'll do it. The vast majoriy will depend on IT people to keep them safe, and their devices will be quite thoroughly locked down, and their email pretty aggressively filtered. Incidents definitely still happen, though. Same with medicine. I really don't think it's a stretch to imagine people getting socially engineered en masse to install shady apps in a world where each app store and each app requires an entirely new security assessment on little to no data by end users, or apps getting compromised and not get pulled, or whatever. It's possible to solve that quandary, but it's not going to be as easy as just throwing out all restrictions without devising some other mechanism to take their place in protecting users. > Because PCs work, right now, and society is not falling apart. Society isn't falling apart from lots and lots of issues I'd consider quite severe. I'd rather not let anything get to that point if it can be prevented.
- stale2002 6y ago
  > The vast majority will depend on IT They use PCs right now. As of this moment. They are using PCs, just fine. It is the existing status quo that everyone is using PCs already. > I'd rather not let anything get to that point if it can be prevented. There is not "getting" anywhere. We are already here. We are already living in a world where lots and lots of people use the PC. Thats what you don't understand. This is the status quo. There are no changes. People already use PCs, right now. > as easy as just throwing out all restrictions There is no throwing anything out, because people already are using PCs, right now. Lots of people use them. You keep phasing this as a "change" when it is not. People using PCs is the status quo.

dividedbyzero 6y ago

> How are they doing that on the PC? PCs work fine. > Just make the iPhone the same as modern day PCs. Which people are already capable of using just fine. Ransomware attacks are absolutely rampant, though you'll never hear about the vast majority of incidents of course, and pretty much all of those start with someone running thingycorp_salaries_full_list.xlsx.exe, enabling macros for a fishy .docx, opening an infected .pdf, downloading and running infected installers, plugging in random USB keys, and so on. Then there's lots and lots of phishing attacks going on, and that's with most companies already clamping down on attack vectors really hard — if people used private PCs as much as they use their private smartphones, for sensitive things like banking, without an IT department to shield them from the worst of it, I guess consumer Windows would get a lot more locked down really quickly. > people are capable of using PCs, and don't explode from the confusion of doing so. People may not explode from confusion, but if they had a better idea of how complex IT security has become, they might at least feel somewhat uneasy. Even people in IT roles screw up and get pwned, or build systems in a way that lets them get pwned easily, all the time really. Bad actors have become pretty sophisticated over the last decade as well, and Covid-19 is only making things worse as lots of unsavory individuals with money and resources find that real-world crime doesn't quite deliver the returns it used to, and everyone and their mother now conduct large parts of their lives through their smartphone and move lots of money through those devices. Personally, I've definitely noticed both attack volume and sophistication going up few notches already. > How does a lawyer use a PC, right now? So thats how they'll do it. The vast majoriy will depend on IT people to keep them safe, and their devices will be quite thoroughly locked down, and their email pretty aggressively filtered. Incidents definitely still happen, though. Same with medicine. I really don't think it's a stretch to imagine people getting socially engineered en masse to install shady apps in a world where each app store and each app requires an entirely new security assessment on little to no data by end users, or apps getting compromised and not get pulled, or whatever. It's possible to solve that quandary, but it's not going to be as easy as just throwing out all restrictions without devising some other mechanism to take their place in protecting users. > Because PCs work, right now, and society is not falling apart. Society isn't falling apart from lots and lots of issues I'd consider quite severe. I'd rather not let anything get to that point if it can be prevented.

stale2002 6y ago
> The vast majority will depend on IT They use PCs right now. As of this moment. They are using PCs, just fine. It is the existing status quo that everyone is using PCs already. > I'd rather not let anything get to that point if it can be prevented. There is not "getting" anywhere. We are already here. We are already living in a world where lots and lots of people use the PC. Thats what you don't understand. This is the status quo. There are no changes. People already use PCs, right now. > as easy as just throwing out all restrictions There is no throwing anything out, because people already are using PCs, right now. Lots of people use them. You keep phasing this as a "change" when it is not. People using PCs is the status quo.