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But salary isn’t necessarily correlated with rarity of talents right? Perhaps you’re in a rural area and trying to hire someone with specific cryptography exper

by exdsq 6y ago

But salary isn’t necessarily correlated with rarity of talents right? Perhaps you’re in a rural area and trying to hire someone with specific cryptography experience and a PhD - they might not warrant a 95th percentile salary for a senior developer out of grad school yet you may need to hire internationally to find someone

chrisseaton 6y ago
> Perhaps you’re in a rural area and trying to hire someone with specific cryptography experience and a PhD - they might not warrant a 95th percentile salary for a senior developer out of grad school yet you may need to hire internationally to find someone. If you can't find someone in the area at a lower price, then yes they warrant a higher salary until you do find someone nationally. That's how salaries are set. Why are you looking internationally before you look nationally? 'Couldn't find someone to do it at what we wanted to pay them' isn't the same as 'couldn't find someone to do it.'
- nsonha 6y ago
  > Why are you looking internationally before you look nationally? You look at a larger pool of people who already want to move to anyware in the States, before a much smaller pool of people who want to move to your specific rural area.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    But I don't think that's in compliance with H1B is it?
    - nsonha 6y ago
      so in essence H1B is really about restricting mobility into the States then
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > so in essence H1B is really about restricting mobility into the States then No, if we wanted that we'd just not have it. The H-1B is (like other employment-driven non-immigrant visas) about meeting the labor demands of capital in the US, with restrictions on it notionally about limiting/mitigating some of the adverse effects on domestically-resident labor.
      - chrisseaton 6y ago
        If they wanted to restrict mobility... why have it at all?
        nsonha 6y ago
        like some people interpret it, to only let "good people" in
- nsonha 6y ago
  > Couldn't find someone to do it at what we wanted to pay them what's wrong with this? Who are you to say these people need to be paid more or companies need to spend more?
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > Who are you to say these people need to be paid more or companies need to spend more? I'm just telling you what H1B is. I've been in the US on a visa myself for what it's worth.
jayd16 6y ago
You'll just have to look nationally before you look internationally.
- exdsq 6y ago
  I’m just a little salty because I’m trying to move over from the U.K. and it’s a bit of a pain :P
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    Can you work remotely? I've worked all my career for North American tech companies remotely from the UK. And it shouldn't be a pain! When you do get a job you know you'll be earning 95th!
    - exdsq 6y ago
      So I’m actually already working remotely on around ~$100k in the U.K. my partner starts her postdoc at Stanford next summer and I can get a J2 to move across but I think I’ll need to quit this work until I get a work permit out there? If there’s any sort of workaround I’m really keen to know of it!
      - chrisseaton 6y ago
        I think you can work normally on a J2. You need a 'Employment Authorization Document' but I think that's just a formality and is easy to do. I think there's some funny rule about not 'supporting' the J1 holder though, so I don't know if you can earn more than her which you probably would if she's a postdoc? I'm not a lawyer - you should instruct one.
        exdsq 6y ago
        Yeah I think I will, thanks for the help though! Don’t want to ruin her postdoc for a few months salary...
dragonwriter 6y ago
> But salary isn’t necessarily correlated with rarity of talents right? No, but requiring a high salary is a disincentive for companies to seek or continue with H-1B without genuinely exhausting local alternatives. Now, personally, I think H-1B is fundamentally a bad idea and the visa category should not exist at all and prefer a radically different approach, but if you accept the premise of the H-1B, high salary floors make perfect sense as a way to improve the alignment of incentives with the notional purpose of the program.
kevindong 6y ago
Minimum salaries for H1Bs are already location-specific [0]: Compare the salaries between Broadwater County, Montana [1] and NYC [2] for further evidence. [0]: Per https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/h-1b-specialty-occupations-dod-cooperative-research-and-development-project-workers-and-fashion https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary... : > The employer/agent will pay the H-1B worker a wage which is no less than the wage paid to similarly qualified workers or, if greater, the prevailing wage for the position in the geographic area in which the H-1B worker will be working. [1]: https://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesQuickResults.aspx?code=15-1133&area=3000003&year=21&source=3 https://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesQuickResults.aspx?code=15-1... [2]: https://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesQuickResults.aspx?code=15-1133&area=35620&year=21&source=3 https://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesQuickResults.aspx?code=15-1...
jb775 6y ago
If no one in an entire country is willing to accept $X to do $Y (in any location), the business needs to increase $X. The whole point of hiring an employee is bc $Y represents more net business value than $X. If $X > net business value of $Y, the business shouldn't be hiring for that role. Businesses love these H1B visas because overseas candidates are willing to accept less $X since the visa represents significant value to them, but barely costs the business anything (before the recent changes). This results in artificially holding down $X for U.S. citizens, so removing incentives for businesses to take advantage of this is a good thing.

by exdsq 6y ago

chrisseaton 6y ago

> Perhaps you’re in a rural area and trying to hire someone with specific cryptography experience and a PhD - they might not warrant a 95th percentile salary for a senior developer out of grad school yet you may need to hire internationally to find someone. If you can't find someone in the area at a lower price, then yes they warrant a higher salary until you do find someone nationally. That's how salaries are set. Why are you looking internationally before you look nationally? 'Couldn't find someone to do it at what we wanted to pay them' isn't the same as 'couldn't find someone to do it.'

nsonha 6y ago
> Why are you looking internationally before you look nationally? You look at a larger pool of people who already want to move to anyware in the States, before a much smaller pool of people who want to move to your specific rural area.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  But I don't think that's in compliance with H1B is it?
  - nsonha 6y ago
    so in essence H1B is really about restricting mobility into the States then
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > so in essence H1B is really about restricting mobility into the States then No, if we wanted that we'd just not have it. The H-1B is (like other employment-driven non-immigrant visas) about meeting the labor demands of capital in the US, with restrictions on it notionally about limiting/mitigating some of the adverse effects on domestically-resident labor.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      If they wanted to restrict mobility... why have it at all?
      - nsonha 6y ago
        like some people interpret it, to only let "good people" in
nsonha 6y ago
> Couldn't find someone to do it at what we wanted to pay them what's wrong with this? Who are you to say these people need to be paid more or companies need to spend more?
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > Who are you to say these people need to be paid more or companies need to spend more? I'm just telling you what H1B is. I've been in the US on a visa myself for what it's worth.

jayd16 6y ago

You'll just have to look nationally before you look internationally.

exdsq 6y ago
I’m just a little salty because I’m trying to move over from the U.K. and it’s a bit of a pain :P
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  Can you work remotely? I've worked all my career for North American tech companies remotely from the UK. And it shouldn't be a pain! When you do get a job you know you'll be earning 95th!
  - exdsq 6y ago
    So I’m actually already working remotely on around ~$100k in the U.K. my partner starts her postdoc at Stanford next summer and I can get a J2 to move across but I think I’ll need to quit this work until I get a work permit out there? If there’s any sort of workaround I’m really keen to know of it!
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      I think you can work normally on a J2. You need a 'Employment Authorization Document' but I think that's just a formality and is easy to do. I think there's some funny rule about not 'supporting' the J1 holder though, so I don't know if you can earn more than her which you probably would if she's a postdoc? I'm not a lawyer - you should instruct one.
      - exdsq 6y ago
        Yeah I think I will, thanks for the help though! Don’t want to ruin her postdoc for a few months salary...

dragonwriter 6y ago

> But salary isn’t necessarily correlated with rarity of talents right? No, but requiring a high salary is a disincentive for companies to seek or continue with H-1B without genuinely exhausting local alternatives. Now, personally, I think H-1B is fundamentally a bad idea and the visa category should not exist at all and prefer a radically different approach, but if you accept the premise of the H-1B, high salary floors make perfect sense as a way to improve the alignment of incentives with the notional purpose of the program.

kevindong 6y ago

Minimum salaries for H1Bs are already location-specific [0]: Compare the salaries between Broadwater County, Montana [1] and NYC [2] for further evidence. [0]: Per https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/h-1b-specialty-occupations-dod-cooperative-research-and-development-project-workers-and-fashion https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary... : > The employer/agent will pay the H-1B worker a wage which is no less than the wage paid to similarly qualified workers or, if greater, the prevailing wage for the position in the geographic area in which the H-1B worker will be working. [1]: https://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesQuickResults.aspx?code=15-1133&area=3000003&year=21&source=3 https://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesQuickResults.aspx?code=15-1... [2]: https://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesQuickResults.aspx?code=15-1133&area=35620&year=21&source=3 https://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesQuickResults.aspx?code=15-1...

jb775 6y ago

If no one in an entire country is willing to accept $X to do $Y (in any location), the business needs to increase $X. The whole point of hiring an employee is bc $Y represents more net business value than $X. If $X > net business value of $Y, the business shouldn't be hiring for that role. Businesses love these H1B visas because overseas candidates are willing to accept less $X since the visa represents significant value to them, but barely costs the business anything (before the recent changes). This results in artificially holding down $X for U.S. citizens, so removing incentives for businesses to take advantage of this is a good thing.