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It goes on to talk about its usage of "Arabic science" at the beginning of the second section. "A preliminary caution must be taken about both parts of the ter

by AlexSW 6y ago

It goes on to talk about its usage of "Arabic science" at the beginning of the second section. "A preliminary caution must be taken about both parts of the term “Arabic science.” This is, first, because the scientists discussed here were not all Arab Muslims. Indeed, most of the greatest thinkers of the era were not ethnically Arab. This is not surprising considering that, for several centuries throughout the Middle East, Muslims were a minority (a trend that only began to change at the end of the tenth century). The second caution about “Arabic science” is that it was not science as we are familiar with it today.[...]"

mrwnmonm 6y ago
So why did they use Islam in the beginning?
- mleonhard 6y ago
  USA's foreign interference is certainly important to talk about. But I would really like to hear your opinion on the meat of the article. Its main point is that Islam's rules apply to public and personal life so universities and government budgets get controlled by religion. Fundamentalism retards scientific discovery. (I was taught fundamentalism as a child and I confirm this is true.) So when fundamentalism spread through the Islamic world, they stopped discovering new science. A second point is that Arab culture doesn't value science. The Abbasid empire was controlled by Arabs. The empire translated scientific literature into Arabic for political reasons, not for the pursuit of knowledge. The existence of the large body of accessible scientific literature enabled highly intelligent folks to make scientific progress. The translation was not done in enduring institutions like universities. So the Golden Age of Arabic Science happened by accident, not because Arab culture or the empire valued scientific progress.
  - mrwnmonm 6y ago
    I believe that religion should not enforce any rules on scientific study. That being said, it would require (for me at least) some study to prove some of the claims you made. Egypt, while has a majority of muslims, is a secular country. Not in the sense that they have some worldview and understanding in political systems, they just don't rule with religion. So, I wasn't taught much about religion in my studying years. So, claims like "Arab culture doesn't value science" and "translated scientific literature into Arabic for political reasons, not for the pursuit of knowledge", would require me to read a lot in history to make a judgement. For example, I know that the chemistry that existed in their days was actually alchemy, so I think it was reasonable for them to reject it. The part of "Translations were for political reasons" needs a lot of research, or maybe I just don't know about it. I also think that those boundaries between cultures are almost gone by now. While there are some extreme groups (which I believe it does exist everywhere), young people here worship Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo, and old people have their version of Fox News. It is the same shit everywhere. They don't have a 'culture' or some philosophy to reject science using it as you might think. They know nothing about Islam, and they know nothing about science. That is the majority of people, not all of them of course. I will exclude from that most of the young people who were active during the revolution. While the revolution changed us and made us more open to the world, it was a huge shock. [You might find this interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tTdlSzIANo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tTdlSzIANo] I realize that the situation was fucked up before the US gets into the picture. But a lot of people realized now that we need a real change and they will accept a lot of western ideas more than you think. But we saw the people getting killed in the streets, and the US supported the killer happily. So I don't really know where the situation goes from here.

by AlexSW 6y ago

mrwnmonm 6y ago

So why did they use Islam in the beginning?

mleonhard 6y ago
USA's foreign interference is certainly important to talk about. But I would really like to hear your opinion on the meat of the article. Its main point is that Islam's rules apply to public and personal life so universities and government budgets get controlled by religion. Fundamentalism retards scientific discovery. (I was taught fundamentalism as a child and I confirm this is true.) So when fundamentalism spread through the Islamic world, they stopped discovering new science. A second point is that Arab culture doesn't value science. The Abbasid empire was controlled by Arabs. The empire translated scientific literature into Arabic for political reasons, not for the pursuit of knowledge. The existence of the large body of accessible scientific literature enabled highly intelligent folks to make scientific progress. The translation was not done in enduring institutions like universities. So the Golden Age of Arabic Science happened by accident, not because Arab culture or the empire valued scientific progress.
- mrwnmonm 6y ago
  I believe that religion should not enforce any rules on scientific study. That being said, it would require (for me at least) some study to prove some of the claims you made. Egypt, while has a majority of muslims, is a secular country. Not in the sense that they have some worldview and understanding in political systems, they just don't rule with religion. So, I wasn't taught much about religion in my studying years. So, claims like "Arab culture doesn't value science" and "translated scientific literature into Arabic for political reasons, not for the pursuit of knowledge", would require me to read a lot in history to make a judgement. For example, I know that the chemistry that existed in their days was actually alchemy, so I think it was reasonable for them to reject it. The part of "Translations were for political reasons" needs a lot of research, or maybe I just don't know about it. I also think that those boundaries between cultures are almost gone by now. While there are some extreme groups (which I believe it does exist everywhere), young people here worship Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo, and old people have their version of Fox News. It is the same shit everywhere. They don't have a 'culture' or some philosophy to reject science using it as you might think. They know nothing about Islam, and they know nothing about science. That is the majority of people, not all of them of course. I will exclude from that most of the young people who were active during the revolution. While the revolution changed us and made us more open to the world, it was a huge shock. [You might find this interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tTdlSzIANo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tTdlSzIANo] I realize that the situation was fucked up before the US gets into the picture. But a lot of people realized now that we need a real change and they will accept a lot of western ideas more than you think. But we saw the people getting killed in the streets, and the US supported the killer happily. So I don't really know where the situation goes from here.