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While your reasoning might be true for your (1) case, in (2) ... "a violinist who spent 1 year learning how to play" absolutely will not be able to teach you v

While your reasoning might be true for your (1) case, in (2) ... "a violinist who spent 1 year learning how to play" absolutely will not be able to teach you vs someone who spent 10 years. It takes about 2 years to sound not like a dying cat on the violin (you can ask anyone), and about 3-5 years to sound "ok". Vibrato itself take about 5-6 years to develop. Intonation (whether you are playing the right note) takes about 2 years to get a sense of, and 3-6 years to say "ok I know when I'm off", and about 15 years (ie more than your 10 year example) to say "ok I know how to improve". At 10 years, a violin player is just getting over being a beginner into a moderate level. Relying on a 1 year old violin player to teach you to play is begging for injuries (yes - playing the violin is an unnatural position and there are ways you can permanently injure yourself - imagine not being able to type ever again because your hands hurt) and possibly permanent burnout from the whole "learning to play music" enterprise. No. In violin learning make sure you find someone who at least has gotten past the initial hurdles themselves to mentor you. I can understand if you use some example like writing or journalism or photography to explain the "curse of knowledge" but violin playing isn't one of those things. I play the violin on an amateur level, and am about 7 years into my journey. I am only now at a level where I am able to give some tips without having to indemnify myself from permanently disabling people who ask me to teach them.

justiceforsaas 6y ago
Yeah, my point was to demonstrate the whole "curse of knowledge" principle, and something like "photography" would be more suitable. Edited the comment. This is why I love HN, you guys tear apart every single thing ;))
- barkingcat 6y ago
  Sorry didn't mean to tear into you! It's just that violin really is a pretty difficult instrument. When people say it's difficult, it doesn't mean impossible. It means that goals are attainable through slow, steady, practice, investment (both time and money), and ultimately, drive, passion, and not expecting too much of yourself. Being easy on myself is how I was able to get through 7 years of sounding bad. I had to sound unbearably bad in order to get here. and I am planning to sound bad for the foreseeable future until I get to my goals. That's the way of fret-less stringed instruments, and probably a lot of other things in life as well.
  - justiceforsaas 6y ago
    Wow, 7 years. Talk about persistence. I'm not really into violins (I play a piano, and have an ear for music so it takes me <10 minutes to hear something & play it). Seems it's the TOTAL opposite with a violin, and really appreciated that correction comment!
unishark 6y ago
The curse of knowledge problem remains for the expert, though. A long learning curve just means you need to be clear what the 1-year student can teach you. Namely they will be better specifically at helping someone get from year zero to year one in their learning. Perhaps a safer way to accomplish this is techniques like "peer learning", where students are put in groups and the ones who are ahead (i.e. they understood the concept when the prof presented it) can explain it to the ones who are behind in a way they understand better.
- deleted 6y ago
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justiceforsaas 6y ago

Yeah, my point was to demonstrate the whole "curse of knowledge" principle, and something like "photography" would be more suitable. Edited the comment. This is why I love HN, you guys tear apart every single thing ;))

barkingcat 6y ago
Sorry didn't mean to tear into you! It's just that violin really is a pretty difficult instrument. When people say it's difficult, it doesn't mean impossible. It means that goals are attainable through slow, steady, practice, investment (both time and money), and ultimately, drive, passion, and not expecting too much of yourself. Being easy on myself is how I was able to get through 7 years of sounding bad. I had to sound unbearably bad in order to get here. and I am planning to sound bad for the foreseeable future until I get to my goals. That's the way of fret-less stringed instruments, and probably a lot of other things in life as well.
- justiceforsaas 6y ago
  Wow, 7 years. Talk about persistence. I'm not really into violins (I play a piano, and have an ear for music so it takes me <10 minutes to hear something & play it). Seems it's the TOTAL opposite with a violin, and really appreciated that correction comment!

unishark 6y ago

The curse of knowledge problem remains for the expert, though. A long learning curve just means you need to be clear what the 1-year student can teach you. Namely they will be better specifically at helping someone get from year zero to year one in their learning. Perhaps a safer way to accomplish this is techniques like "peer learning", where students are put in groups and the ones who are ahead (i.e. they understood the concept when the prof presented it) can explain it to the ones who are behind in a way they understand better.

deleted 6y ago
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