4 ms·

Potentially unpopular opinion here on HN, but Android.

by kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago

whimsicalism 6y ago
And that avoids the rent-seeking problem... how?
- manfredo 6y ago
  You can side load apps. You don't need to go through Google Play.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    But, correct me if I'm wrong, vendors aren't allowed to bundle other app stores into the home screen if they want to use the Play store. That seems like classic rent-seeking.
    - manfredo 6y ago
      But the point is, you can just download a .apk file and install like like you would on a desktop. You can even download a .apk file that installs an alternative app store. You do have to click through a couple screens with scary warning messages, but it's a much, much softer lock-in than Apple & the App Store.
  - DenseComet 6y ago
    Well that's just the idea. In reality, most people only install apps from Google Play, and Google has decided that it also wants to enforce a 30% cut [1]. Sideloading provides an option, but for most developers, its not a realistic one (See: Epic putting Fortnite onto the Play Store after trying to get people to install by sideloading). [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/28/technology/google-play-store-30-percent.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/28/technology/google-play-st...
    - manfredo 6y ago
      Sideloading amounts to downloading a .apk file and clicking yes on the prompt to install it. It's no more difficult than installing applications on Windows. I know firsthand that elementary school children are capable of sideloading apps. IIRC Google offered Epic more favorable rates after it released Fortnite through side loading. Presumably this indicates that sideloading was a success and Google didn't want Epic to set a precedence that bypassing the Play store is feasible.
      - whimsicalism 6y ago
        > It's no more difficult than installing applications on Windows. What's important is relative difficulty. If 99% of all apps the consumer can get are on the app store, but they have to go through a new and somewhat foreign side-loading process to get this one app, then they probably will just go for that app's competitor on the App store. I'd be curious what percentage of Android users, outside of China, sideload apps. My guess is that it would be sub 3%.
    - LdSGSgvupDV 6y ago
      I am not sure for normal app. But, for gaming, it is common to download the app from third party app store.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
esarbe 6y ago
Not unpopular, but it just won't work; Google has already indicated that it also is going to want a 30% cut. And side-loading is not really an option for the average consumer. The problem of rent-seeking by monopolists will just go away by itself.
- forty 6y ago
  You can just side load an other store, then install from there, which I think is acceptable UX since you really just have to install the store once.
  - SSLy 6y ago
    Side-loaded stores can't auto-update apps. You have to confirm each app every time. It's unacceptable UX for a typical user.
    - toastal 6y ago
      We’re going down the rabbit hole but a user can install Aurora Services to get background installs in conjunction with Aurora Store. Currently I would assume the same users that are using alt stores probably have root access to install. Similarly one can flash F-Droid’s privileged extension. https://gitlab.com/AuroraOSS/AuroraService https://gitlab.com/AuroraOSS/AuroraService https://gitlab.com/fdroid/privileged-extension https://gitlab.com/fdroid/privileged-extension
      - whimsicalism 6y ago
        Oh yeah, but there are “no barriers” to using alternative app marketplaces and Google totally isn’t collecting a rent exactly like Apple. /s No chance in hell the average consumer is doing this, so they are effectively locked in.
    - grogenaut 6y ago
      both owning a phone and having worked on large scale apps, users couldn't get an eff about updating apps and are in fact annoyed by it.

Potentially unpopular opinion here on HN, but Android.

whimsicalism 6y ago

And that avoids the rent-seeking problem... how?

manfredo 6y ago
You can side load apps. You don't need to go through Google Play.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  But, correct me if I'm wrong, vendors aren't allowed to bundle other app stores into the home screen if they want to use the Play store. That seems like classic rent-seeking.
  - manfredo 6y ago
    But the point is, you can just download a .apk file and install like like you would on a desktop. You can even download a .apk file that installs an alternative app store. You do have to click through a couple screens with scary warning messages, but it's a much, much softer lock-in than Apple & the App Store.
- DenseComet 6y ago
  Well that's just the idea. In reality, most people only install apps from Google Play, and Google has decided that it also wants to enforce a 30% cut [1]. Sideloading provides an option, but for most developers, its not a realistic one (See: Epic putting Fortnite onto the Play Store after trying to get people to install by sideloading). [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/28/technology/google-play-store-30-percent.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/28/technology/google-play-st...
  - manfredo 6y ago
    Sideloading amounts to downloading a .apk file and clicking yes on the prompt to install it. It's no more difficult than installing applications on Windows. I know firsthand that elementary school children are capable of sideloading apps. IIRC Google offered Epic more favorable rates after it released Fortnite through side loading. Presumably this indicates that sideloading was a success and Google didn't want Epic to set a precedence that bypassing the Play store is feasible.
    - whimsicalism 6y ago
      > It's no more difficult than installing applications on Windows. What's important is relative difficulty. If 99% of all apps the consumer can get are on the app store, but they have to go through a new and somewhat foreign side-loading process to get this one app, then they probably will just go for that app's competitor on the App store. I'd be curious what percentage of Android users, outside of China, sideload apps. My guess is that it would be sub 3%.
  - LdSGSgvupDV 6y ago
    I am not sure for normal app. But, for gaming, it is common to download the app from third party app store.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

esarbe 6y ago

Not unpopular, but it just won't work; Google has already indicated that it also is going to want a 30% cut. And side-loading is not really an option for the average consumer. The problem of rent-seeking by monopolists will just go away by itself.

forty 6y ago
You can just side load an other store, then install from there, which I think is acceptable UX since you really just have to install the store once.
- SSLy 6y ago
  Side-loaded stores can't auto-update apps. You have to confirm each app every time. It's unacceptable UX for a typical user.
  - toastal 6y ago
    We’re going down the rabbit hole but a user can install Aurora Services to get background installs in conjunction with Aurora Store. Currently I would assume the same users that are using alt stores probably have root access to install. Similarly one can flash F-Droid’s privileged extension. https://gitlab.com/AuroraOSS/AuroraService https://gitlab.com/AuroraOSS/AuroraService https://gitlab.com/fdroid/privileged-extension https://gitlab.com/fdroid/privileged-extension
    - whimsicalism 6y ago
      Oh yeah, but there are “no barriers” to using alternative app marketplaces and Google totally isn’t collecting a rent exactly like Apple. /s No chance in hell the average consumer is doing this, so they are effectively locked in.
  - grogenaut 6y ago
    both owning a phone and having worked on large scale apps, users couldn't get an eff about updating apps and are in fact annoyed by it.