4 ms·

I'm not necessarily sure "participation in a group with a view to committing violent acts" needs to describe a thoughtcrime. Even the most liberal societies cri

I'm not necessarily sure "participation in a group with a view to committing violent acts" needs to describe a thoughtcrime. Even the most liberal societies criminalize conspiring to commit or inciting violence, even if they don't get around to enacting the violence.

skitout 6y ago
Well here the law is sufficiently vague so they used it to arrest journalist because they had a camera or a helmet, or arrest many protestors without clear reason. Most of them are out 48h later, but still spent 1 to 2 days in "jail"... A way to deter people from protesting...
rtkwe 6y ago
It depends heavily on how the law is actually used because the phrase 'with a view to committing' means it's down to proving or disproving intent and even if you don't actually go to prison ultimately you can be arrested and/or detained under that law, which is unpleasant, disruptive and definitely acts to discourage people from participating in anything that would risk arrest.
- mytailorisrich 6y ago
  You don't risk arrest for taking part in a lawful demonstration in France. You may risk arrest if you "come prepared", or don't follow police orders to move on or back off. During the Yellow Vests protests some people showed up with helmets, gas masks, and home-made shields, then complained that the police were infringing on their right to 'peaceful' protest when they were prevented from joining the demonstration or arrested... Dress like if you were out for a walk, which you are, and behave in the same way, and the police won't do anything to you.
  - boudin 6y ago
    That's not really true unfortunately, there's a good amount of videos that proves the contrary. It also does make sense to come protected when the police use dangerous weapons and violent strategies against protests.
    - barumi 6y ago
      > That's not really true unfortunately, there's a good amount of videos that proves the contrary. Are you referring to any of the exquisitely cherry picked videos that were highly edited to convey the militants talking points? Better yet, are you able to provide a single example that supports your assertion? > It also does make sense to come protected when the police use dangerous weapons and violent strategies against protests. That assertion makes absolutely no sense in france, specially as you're referring to one-off protests where activists plan to riot and assault people and destroy property.
      - boudin 6y ago
        https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_polici%C3%A8re_en_France https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_polici%C3%A8re_en_F... There is plenty of journalist who did a good job to report violence also. You can look for articles in 2018 and 2019 mainly. > That assertion makes absolutely no sense in france, specially as you're referring to one-off protests where activists plan to riot and assault people and destroy property. You don't know much about what has been happening in France apparently. I'm not talking about the actions of far-right parties to discredit protests or the few people that joins protests just for the fight but people who are protesting in the first place.
    - raverbashing 6y ago
      Good luck trying to convince anyone with such a crap argument. At this point I cannot distinguish the GJ from a crying kid on a plane that's crying just because and the more they scream the more it hurts their throat making them scream more. The protestors are exposing themselves to be the chair à canon of political movements (which might or might not have ulterior motives)

skitout 6y ago

Well here the law is sufficiently vague so they used it to arrest journalist because they had a camera or a helmet, or arrest many protestors without clear reason. Most of them are out 48h later, but still spent 1 to 2 days in "jail"... A way to deter people from protesting...

rtkwe 6y ago

It depends heavily on how the law is actually used because the phrase 'with a view to committing' means it's down to proving or disproving intent and even if you don't actually go to prison ultimately you can be arrested and/or detained under that law, which is unpleasant, disruptive and definitely acts to discourage people from participating in anything that would risk arrest.

mytailorisrich 6y ago
You don't risk arrest for taking part in a lawful demonstration in France. You may risk arrest if you "come prepared", or don't follow police orders to move on or back off. During the Yellow Vests protests some people showed up with helmets, gas masks, and home-made shields, then complained that the police were infringing on their right to 'peaceful' protest when they were prevented from joining the demonstration or arrested... Dress like if you were out for a walk, which you are, and behave in the same way, and the police won't do anything to you.
- boudin 6y ago
  That's not really true unfortunately, there's a good amount of videos that proves the contrary. It also does make sense to come protected when the police use dangerous weapons and violent strategies against protests.
  - barumi 6y ago
    > That's not really true unfortunately, there's a good amount of videos that proves the contrary. Are you referring to any of the exquisitely cherry picked videos that were highly edited to convey the militants talking points? Better yet, are you able to provide a single example that supports your assertion? > It also does make sense to come protected when the police use dangerous weapons and violent strategies against protests. That assertion makes absolutely no sense in france, specially as you're referring to one-off protests where activists plan to riot and assault people and destroy property.
    - boudin 6y ago
      https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_polici%C3%A8re_en_France https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_polici%C3%A8re_en_F... There is plenty of journalist who did a good job to report violence also. You can look for articles in 2018 and 2019 mainly. > That assertion makes absolutely no sense in france, specially as you're referring to one-off protests where activists plan to riot and assault people and destroy property. You don't know much about what has been happening in France apparently. I'm not talking about the actions of far-right parties to discredit protests or the few people that joins protests just for the fight but people who are protesting in the first place.
  - raverbashing 6y ago
    Good luck trying to convince anyone with such a crap argument. At this point I cannot distinguish the GJ from a crying kid on a plane that's crying just because and the more they scream the more it hurts their throat making them scream more. The protestors are exposing themselves to be the chair à canon of political movements (which might or might not have ulterior motives)