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I grew up in a Muslim country, unlike Christianity, Islam accepts scientific discoveries but attributes them to God instead. For instance, we were taught about

I grew up in a Muslim country, unlike Christianity, Islam accepts scientific discoveries but attributes them to God instead. For instance, we were taught about the Big Bang in an Islamic Thinking class but the trick was that "God was responsible for it".

rtx 6y ago
Accept the evolution of man from primates.
- Antipode 6y ago
  Accept or except?
Ancapistani 6y ago
> unlike Christianity, Islam accepts scientific discoveries but attributes them to God instead This seems like a very narrow concept of Christianity. While there are certainly Christian sects that reject well-established concepts it’s far from the norm.
- vmception 6y ago
  Doubt. But I guess that just has to do with what you were exposed to and seen as normal. From my experience, I just find Islam to be 700 years newer, the Quran is a newer book and has some updates to human enlightenment south of the Mediterranean and out of necessity, for example it requires a round earth to get the shortest path to Mecca.
- dboreham 6y ago
  Just as a point of reference that may be surprising to some used to USA religious positions: the Catholic Church fully embraces evolution.
pvaldes 6y ago
> Islam accepts scientific discoveries but attributes them to God So... Who invented computers? god. Who discovered radium? god... Who earned all nobel prices? god? :-) Exams must be really easy then. This is politics or ideology, not science. Ideology wearing a fur of dead science is more common that it seems nowadays (and is not exclusive from Islamic schools, it seems)
- throwaway123x2 6y ago
  The discovery isn't attributed to God, but the existence of the phenomenon. So in your example, God made radium. God made the raw materials to make computers and gave man the intellect to make them.
  - hnracer 6y ago
    This sounds like the God Of The Gaps line of fallacious reasoning. Once we figure out where radium came from then God will be inserted just before that new discovery, ad infinitum, turtles all the way down
    - rtkwe 6y ago
      Sure but it's a way to integrate science and religion and ultimately science doesn't really have an way to answer 'why' for any of this. Even if there's not an actual answer it just happens to be that way and we're a happy little accident of the universe for a lot of people that's kind of unsatisfying. Even if they're wrong to people want to ascribe meaning to their lives, it's why philosophy and religion will probably never leave us.
    - throwaway123x2 6y ago
      Sure, that's the Prime Mover theory, which would be extraordinarily hard to prove or disprove. I don't think it's fallacious reasoning.
      - hnracer 6y ago
        It's fallacious to put God one step before everything we don't know (radium, etc), while forgetting the numerous times this was done in the past (rainbows, etc) only to be demonstrated false once science advances. That's quite different to the Prime Mover hypothesis.
GreenHeuristics 6y ago
The creator of the Big Bang theory, george lemaitre, was a roman catholic priest
jmull 6y ago
> unlike Christianity Whew. That's definitely NOT something you can say generally of Christians. The ones saying crazy stuff get all the attention, but it's not as mainstream as you might have been led to believe. For example, current (I think) Catholic doctrine is similar to the Islamic position you describe: Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth. ... Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God despite himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are. So that's a rather large fraction of Christians. (I was raised Catholic, and, "truth cannot contradict truth" -- obviously a reference to the same thing as this catechism -- was what I was told on this question. So from my perspective, this wasn't just an obscure position, but something actively taught.) If you're interested, here's a link to the wikipedia article, which has links to other sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_the_Catholic_Church#cite_note-3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_the_Catholic_Churc...
artificial 6y ago
Interesting, are you aware that the big bang theory originated from a Belgian priest?
- ebalit 6y ago
  And Mendel was a catholic monk.
wait_a_minute 6y ago
If you are attributing scientific discoveries to God, then that's not exactly accepting the discoveries - it's just pushing God further to the gaps. Christianity does the same thing.
- notsureaboutpg 6y ago
  But the Big Bang Theory is also pushing the question it purports to answer further down the line. The Big Bang Theory purports to explain the mystery of the origin of the universe. But of course it's own origin is mysterious and inexplicable.
mohaine 6y ago
That is completely different then what my Muslim friends from collage said they were taught. They said that at home they had classes that explained how these were "tricks" put in place by God to mislead non-believers. This isn't far from what I heard from some of my Christian friends, which just makes all the worlds religions more much more alike then they differ.
- throwaway123x2 6y ago
  Yeah I mean, it probably depends on how deep a thinker you are. Religious folks integrate religion with modernity in all sorts of ways, from "God's trick/test" to "God signalled this in my scriptures."
booleandilemma 6y ago
unlike Christianity, Islam accepts scientific discoveries Ever heard of the Jesuits?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
nsoonhui 6y ago
You must be kidding right? If not how do you explain the overwhelming rejection of evolution in countries with a majority Muslim population like Saudi Arabia [1], Turkey [0] or even "moderate" ones like Malaysia? I come from Malaysia and I see how evolution as a topic is studiously avoided in school curriculum. [0]: https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/08/20/540965889/in-turkey-schools-will-stop-teaching-evolution-this-fall https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/08/20/540965889/... [1]: http://blogs.nature.com/houseofwisdom/2011/05/saudi_arabia_leads_the_world_i.html http://blogs.nature.com/houseofwisdom/2011/05/saudi_arabia_l...
kypro 6y ago
To be fair a lot of Christians do the same and explain away contradictions in the bible as being simply "metaphors". As more people become scientifically literate hopefully it will push religions to adopt a more rational interpretation of their beliefs.
- Dangeranger 6y ago
  I have had some success speaking with those who devoutly believe in God by stating that while the Universe is governed by the rules of physics and math, science doesn't address where those rules come from, and therefore they can be justified in believing that God created them. Put another way, God isn't the musician playing the symphony, God is the composer of the notes.
  - Ancapistani 6y ago
    I’ve had some success speaking with those who don’t believe by stating that my faith is based on subjective personal experience, and therefore it would be unreasonable for me to expect them to believe based upon my testimony alone. Instead, I only ask that they be open to the idea that the Holy Spirit exists and pay attention if and when they feel His presence in their life. Coming from apparently very different perspectives, I’m struck by the beautiful symmetry of our approaches. It makes me happy :)
    - Dangeranger 6y ago
      This is indeed a beautiful symmetry. Thanks for adding your perspective.
    - vmception 6y ago
      Proponents of other religions experience that same energy. Alongside those that have used psychedelics. Given that, it seems more likely that we have a vestigial sense or an additional state our mind can be in that is either tricking us (our other senses patch and filter erroneous information, tricking us in a fairly uniform way to create our shared reality), or allowing us to perceive an always-there presence or energy. Perhaps other life forces exist in this state alongside us - just like the Bible and other belief systems say - and we are unable to perceive them, or perhaps not. Perhaps a combination of shared reality filtering and an energy/entity(s) operating at a different frequency than we can normally perceive. Or not at all. Although I’m not religious don’t subscribe to exalting the renditions of this energy, I am open to all outcomes about what the expanded reality really is, what is there, what is our symbiotic relationship with it and knowing what it can be.

rtx 6y ago

Accept the evolution of man from primates.

Antipode 6y ago
Accept or except?

Ancapistani 6y ago

> unlike Christianity, Islam accepts scientific discoveries but attributes them to God instead This seems like a very narrow concept of Christianity. While there are certainly Christian sects that reject well-established concepts it’s far from the norm.

vmception 6y ago
Doubt. But I guess that just has to do with what you were exposed to and seen as normal. From my experience, I just find Islam to be 700 years newer, the Quran is a newer book and has some updates to human enlightenment south of the Mediterranean and out of necessity, for example it requires a round earth to get the shortest path to Mecca.
dboreham 6y ago
Just as a point of reference that may be surprising to some used to USA religious positions: the Catholic Church fully embraces evolution.

pvaldes 6y ago

> Islam accepts scientific discoveries but attributes them to God So... Who invented computers? god. Who discovered radium? god... Who earned all nobel prices? god? :-) Exams must be really easy then. This is politics or ideology, not science. Ideology wearing a fur of dead science is more common that it seems nowadays (and is not exclusive from Islamic schools, it seems)

throwaway123x2 6y ago
The discovery isn't attributed to God, but the existence of the phenomenon. So in your example, God made radium. God made the raw materials to make computers and gave man the intellect to make them.
- hnracer 6y ago
  This sounds like the God Of The Gaps line of fallacious reasoning. Once we figure out where radium came from then God will be inserted just before that new discovery, ad infinitum, turtles all the way down
  - rtkwe 6y ago
    Sure but it's a way to integrate science and religion and ultimately science doesn't really have an way to answer 'why' for any of this. Even if there's not an actual answer it just happens to be that way and we're a happy little accident of the universe for a lot of people that's kind of unsatisfying. Even if they're wrong to people want to ascribe meaning to their lives, it's why philosophy and religion will probably never leave us.
  - throwaway123x2 6y ago
    Sure, that's the Prime Mover theory, which would be extraordinarily hard to prove or disprove. I don't think it's fallacious reasoning.
    - hnracer 6y ago
      It's fallacious to put God one step before everything we don't know (radium, etc), while forgetting the numerous times this was done in the past (rainbows, etc) only to be demonstrated false once science advances. That's quite different to the Prime Mover hypothesis.

GreenHeuristics 6y ago

The creator of the Big Bang theory, george lemaitre, was a roman catholic priest

jmull 6y ago

> unlike Christianity Whew. That's definitely NOT something you can say generally of Christians. The ones saying crazy stuff get all the attention, but it's not as mainstream as you might have been led to believe. For example, current (I think) Catholic doctrine is similar to the Islamic position you describe: Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth. ... Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God despite himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are. So that's a rather large fraction of Christians. (I was raised Catholic, and, "truth cannot contradict truth" -- obviously a reference to the same thing as this catechism -- was what I was told on this question. So from my perspective, this wasn't just an obscure position, but something actively taught.) If you're interested, here's a link to the wikipedia article, which has links to other sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_the_Catholic_Church#cite_note-3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_the_Catholic_Churc...

artificial 6y ago

Interesting, are you aware that the big bang theory originated from a Belgian priest?

ebalit 6y ago
And Mendel was a catholic monk.

wait_a_minute 6y ago

If you are attributing scientific discoveries to God, then that's not exactly accepting the discoveries - it's just pushing God further to the gaps. Christianity does the same thing.

notsureaboutpg 6y ago
But the Big Bang Theory is also pushing the question it purports to answer further down the line. The Big Bang Theory purports to explain the mystery of the origin of the universe. But of course it's own origin is mysterious and inexplicable.

mohaine 6y ago

That is completely different then what my Muslim friends from collage said they were taught. They said that at home they had classes that explained how these were "tricks" put in place by God to mislead non-believers. This isn't far from what I heard from some of my Christian friends, which just makes all the worlds religions more much more alike then they differ.

throwaway123x2 6y ago
Yeah I mean, it probably depends on how deep a thinker you are. Religious folks integrate religion with modernity in all sorts of ways, from "God's trick/test" to "God signalled this in my scriptures."

booleandilemma 6y ago

unlike Christianity, Islam accepts scientific discoveries Ever heard of the Jesuits?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

nsoonhui 6y ago

You must be kidding right? If not how do you explain the overwhelming rejection of evolution in countries with a majority Muslim population like Saudi Arabia [1], Turkey [0] or even "moderate" ones like Malaysia? I come from Malaysia and I see how evolution as a topic is studiously avoided in school curriculum. [0]: https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/08/20/540965889/in-turkey-schools-will-stop-teaching-evolution-this-fall https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/08/20/540965889/... [1]: http://blogs.nature.com/houseofwisdom/2011/05/saudi_arabia_leads_the_world_i.html http://blogs.nature.com/houseofwisdom/2011/05/saudi_arabia_l...

kypro 6y ago

To be fair a lot of Christians do the same and explain away contradictions in the bible as being simply "metaphors". As more people become scientifically literate hopefully it will push religions to adopt a more rational interpretation of their beliefs.

Dangeranger 6y ago
I have had some success speaking with those who devoutly believe in God by stating that while the Universe is governed by the rules of physics and math, science doesn't address where those rules come from, and therefore they can be justified in believing that God created them. Put another way, God isn't the musician playing the symphony, God is the composer of the notes.
- Ancapistani 6y ago
  I’ve had some success speaking with those who don’t believe by stating that my faith is based on subjective personal experience, and therefore it would be unreasonable for me to expect them to believe based upon my testimony alone. Instead, I only ask that they be open to the idea that the Holy Spirit exists and pay attention if and when they feel His presence in their life. Coming from apparently very different perspectives, I’m struck by the beautiful symmetry of our approaches. It makes me happy :)
  - Dangeranger 6y ago
    This is indeed a beautiful symmetry. Thanks for adding your perspective.
  - vmception 6y ago
    Proponents of other religions experience that same energy. Alongside those that have used psychedelics. Given that, it seems more likely that we have a vestigial sense or an additional state our mind can be in that is either tricking us (our other senses patch and filter erroneous information, tricking us in a fairly uniform way to create our shared reality), or allowing us to perceive an always-there presence or energy. Perhaps other life forces exist in this state alongside us - just like the Bible and other belief systems say - and we are unable to perceive them, or perhaps not. Perhaps a combination of shared reality filtering and an energy/entity(s) operating at a different frequency than we can normally perceive. Or not at all. Although I’m not religious don’t subscribe to exalting the renditions of this energy, I am open to all outcomes about what the expanded reality really is, what is there, what is our symbiotic relationship with it and knowing what it can be.