4 ms·

The recent news that some minors should be placed under supervision by military people is quite disturbing. Minor delinquency is a civil problem that should be

The recent news that some minors should be placed under supervision by military people is quite disturbing. Minor delinquency is a civil problem that should be tackled by police and justice. At the moment no laws permit that, but probably it will soon be drafted and voted [0]. [0] https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.francetvinfo.fr%2Fpolitique%2Fgouvernement-d-edouard-philippe%2Fjustice-eric-dupont-moretti-se-dit-favorable-a-l-encadrement-militaire-de-certains-mineurs_4133145.html https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&u=https%3...

mytailorisrich 6y ago
Military supervision of young people used to exist in France. It was even compulsory. It was called the 'National military service'. It was abolished 20 years ago but some people think it was actually useful to mix social classes, get young people away from mum and dad, teach some useful skills (people could get a driving license or a truck driving license as part of the training they got) and effort/discipline. This proposal is just a re-hash of that and of the classic "send them to military school/bootcamp, that'll teach tem".
- athenot 6y ago
  > people could get a driving license or a truck driving license as part of the training they got For non-Europeans who might not appreciate the value, this is roughly $1,000 in value and many hours of {written,driving} lessons. PS: love the De Funès reference in your username!
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    CDLs in the US are similarly valuable.
    - UncleEntity 6y ago
      US military truck drivers (88M) doesn't give you a civilian CDL as part of the training. You can use a CDL as the training part to get a military license though -- aside from having to have a specific license for every different vehicle to be qualified to drive them but that's as simple as driving around the block to get 'signed off'. If you have a military drivers license you can drive on public streets in military vehicles but you can't use it to drive a civilian vehicle on military or public roads. (used to be an 88M and driver testing NCO)
      - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
        It doesn't get you a CDL but it gives you the experience needed to get a CDL with a tiny bit of book study and a truck to borrow and without incurring a bunch of debt or becoming an indentured servant to Swift of similar. Someone who's day job is dicking around in an M911 will be able to get a CDL with minimal effort compared to some rando off the street and they will likely be able to skip the "spend a few years holding a steering wheel for a dry van and get treated like crap by dispatch" part of the truck driver career progression.
  - mytailorisrich 6y ago
    Actually, De Funes himself used this sentence as a reference to "L'Anglais Sans Peine", which is a famous book to learn English, since he was teaching English to his men.
- simion314 6y ago
  Not sure on often this is happening but I was told about many cases of officers abusing the recruits I don't like the idea of soldiers becoming tyrannical educators.
- JPLeRouzic 6y ago
  >It was called the 'National military service'. I am a male French citizen aged 65, so I know first hand. There are several differences: * It was not compulsory, as in most countries including US, there were actually several alternatives (appelé scientifique, etc). * Only males were the subject of "conscription". * The goal was to make most citizen ready to take arms, and from my own experience, I think it did a good job at that. * Young people from suburban areas where not specially targeted (see what said Dupont-Moretty)
  - msla 6y ago
    > It was not compulsory, as in most countries including US, there were actually several alternatives (appelé scientifique, etc). The US last had conscription during the Vietnam War and has never had a general-purpose mandatory peacetime "National Service" equivalent. Our draft had deferments of various kinds as well, in addition to alternative service for conscientious objectors.
  - mytailorisrich 6y ago
    It was compulsory for all males. "Appelé scientifique" was a way of doing it in a 'non-fighting capacity', so to speak. I remember when I turned 18 and I received a letter from the Ministry of Defence 'ordering'* me to report to the local barracks for an initial physical. That's how it was. After that either you tried to get out of it for medical reasons or delayed it because of University studies (at which point you could indeed apply to do it in a technical/civilian position). I was lucky that they abolished it while I was at University so there was nothing left for me to do after I graduated. I say 'lucky' but I was actually disappointed as I had planned to apply for the "cooperation" i.e. to be sent abroad for 1.5 years in a technical capacity. * I added quotes but it was really a legal order and they used to send the gendarmes knock on your door at some point if they didn't hear from you.
    - JPLeRouzic 6y ago
      Thanks for sharing, Jean-Pierre
    - floren 6y ago

mytailorisrich 6y ago

Military supervision of young people used to exist in France. It was even compulsory. It was called the 'National military service'. It was abolished 20 years ago but some people think it was actually useful to mix social classes, get young people away from mum and dad, teach some useful skills (people could get a driving license or a truck driving license as part of the training they got) and effort/discipline. This proposal is just a re-hash of that and of the classic "send them to military school/bootcamp, that'll teach tem".

athenot 6y ago
> people could get a driving license or a truck driving license as part of the training they got For non-Europeans who might not appreciate the value, this is roughly $1,000 in value and many hours of {written,driving} lessons. PS: love the De Funès reference in your username!
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  CDLs in the US are similarly valuable.
  - UncleEntity 6y ago
    US military truck drivers (88M) doesn't give you a civilian CDL as part of the training. You can use a CDL as the training part to get a military license though -- aside from having to have a specific license for every different vehicle to be qualified to drive them but that's as simple as driving around the block to get 'signed off'. If you have a military drivers license you can drive on public streets in military vehicles but you can't use it to drive a civilian vehicle on military or public roads. (used to be an 88M and driver testing NCO)
    - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
      It doesn't get you a CDL but it gives you the experience needed to get a CDL with a tiny bit of book study and a truck to borrow and without incurring a bunch of debt or becoming an indentured servant to Swift of similar. Someone who's day job is dicking around in an M911 will be able to get a CDL with minimal effort compared to some rando off the street and they will likely be able to skip the "spend a few years holding a steering wheel for a dry van and get treated like crap by dispatch" part of the truck driver career progression.
- mytailorisrich 6y ago
  Actually, De Funes himself used this sentence as a reference to "L'Anglais Sans Peine", which is a famous book to learn English, since he was teaching English to his men.
simion314 6y ago
Not sure on often this is happening but I was told about many cases of officers abusing the recruits I don't like the idea of soldiers becoming tyrannical educators.
JPLeRouzic 6y ago
>It was called the 'National military service'. I am a male French citizen aged 65, so I know first hand. There are several differences: * It was not compulsory, as in most countries including US, there were actually several alternatives (appelé scientifique, etc). * Only males were the subject of "conscription". * The goal was to make most citizen ready to take arms, and from my own experience, I think it did a good job at that. * Young people from suburban areas where not specially targeted (see what said Dupont-Moretty)
- msla 6y ago
  > It was not compulsory, as in most countries including US, there were actually several alternatives (appelé scientifique, etc). The US last had conscription during the Vietnam War and has never had a general-purpose mandatory peacetime "National Service" equivalent. Our draft had deferments of various kinds as well, in addition to alternative service for conscientious objectors.
- mytailorisrich 6y ago
  It was compulsory for all males. "Appelé scientifique" was a way of doing it in a 'non-fighting capacity', so to speak. I remember when I turned 18 and I received a letter from the Ministry of Defence 'ordering'* me to report to the local barracks for an initial physical. That's how it was. After that either you tried to get out of it for medical reasons or delayed it because of University studies (at which point you could indeed apply to do it in a technical/civilian position). I was lucky that they abolished it while I was at University so there was nothing left for me to do after I graduated. I say 'lucky' but I was actually disappointed as I had planned to apply for the "cooperation" i.e. to be sent abroad for 1.5 years in a technical capacity. * I added quotes but it was really a legal order and they used to send the gendarmes knock on your door at some point if they didn't hear from you.
  - JPLeRouzic 6y ago
    Thanks for sharing, Jean-Pierre
  - floren 6y ago